I Think LoZ: TP is Overrated

[fearsomepirate]

Honestly, I was not all that impressed by this game. Well, I take that back, the opening sequences all the way up until after you

Spoiler

saved Colin

were pretty sweet. But, like Wind Waker, the cutscenes and plot development completely tapered off after then. I think what hurts this game is that it's painfully easy. I mean, you watch this enormous colossus launch off a devastating fiery attack that blows you off your feet and shatters stalactites...and you lose a quarter-heart. It's painful. The animation makes it look dreadful and terrifying, but then he does less damage than drinking some bad purple chu jelly.

The other major downer is the complete lack of highly useful, yet not strictly necessary items. The only one I can think of is the

Spoiler

scope

, but I rarely used it. Pieces of heart were worthless, since enemies don't do damage. Money is almost useless, because there's nothing worth buying...even though you can't find bombs randomly, you'll find almost all you need in chests. I bought water bombs twice. There's a

Spoiler

rupee-powered armor

you can buy, but it's completely worthless since you're already invincible anyway.

Who else thought this game was overrated? I personally enjoyed Wind Waker a lot more.

 

[Blade]

Wind Waker was probably better aesthetically and was more quirky.

Twilight Princess is simply more polished in every other way. It's also about twice as long.

So I see your points and have respect to them, but disagree with the overall notion that TP > WW. TP was my GOTY this year.

 

[MadReaper]

I agree with pretty much everything you said especially the "being to easy part". I think whats bad about it now is that THERE IS NOTHING NEW they really need to refresh the series. Honestly playing through this game I really felt like I played it before It felt like a had a built in walkthrough in my brain I just KNEW where to go. Whatever I should stop now before the zelda geeks come in with there plastic master swords talking about how wrong am.

Peace

 

[Fu3lFr3nzy]

You couldve done alot better with the spoiler cover up dude

By the time they read the word

Spoiler

, they've already read the words next to it

 

[Crayon]

Here, here.

I'd also like to add that it's padded, unevenly paced, vaguely storied, stick to the numbers, fanservice horseshit.

I've been chipping away at this game for a month and I can hardly bring myself to pick up the controller each time. I'm pretty far in and it just bores me to tears. Right before I started TP, I just finished playing Ocarina of Time for the first time since 8 years ago when it released. Now THAT was a game. TP is like an OoT impersonator, if you get my drift.

It's everything that's wrong with Nintendo games. If you'd like to see what everything right is, play PikMin.

Oh and I liked Wind Waker alot. Just for refference.

 

[Acert93]

I think what hurts this game is that it's painfully easy.

I think this has gone hand-in-hand with their refocus in the market and has been a trend. I know many of my GCN games that are 1st party are too easy, which is especially notable in sequals to major franchises. Years ago I remember how many games were very difficult and offered a lot of reply. Iwata, and Yamauchi before him, have discussed this in detail and their games reflect their changing philosophy. Which, honestly, is necessary if you are shifting gears from hard core, serious gamers to more casual gamers.

What frustrates me is that it seems many skill based aspects of their games have been lost in favor or simpler mechanisms that destroy the learning curve. Mario Kart Double Dash!! (GCN) compared to Mario Kart (SNES) is a prime example. I would say Mario Kart (SNES) is an excellent example of a game that straddles both sides: very accessible and fun to novices, but offered a large learning curve for prolongued play and mastery as well as skill based competition.

I think the Wii philosophy will further emphasize Nintendo's shift from "gaming" to "fun with a game" as they begin to cater strongly to more casual and non-gamers.

 

[Ty]

I have to agree with the overall comments in this thread. LoZ: TP gets a "meh" from me.

The art is decent but so far I find the story boring. Maybe the kids annoy me too much?

I also find the controls somewhat frustrating at times. For instance, the nunchuk doesn't respond 50% of the time when I'm trying to do a spin attack. In addition, climbing ladders is somewhat cumbersome because the animation seems less granular than it should be so I'm missing the ladder by half a step all the time.

And now I've found an a$$tastic bug that happened to me twice in the last play session where at first everything is fine, but then the left digital stick gets uncalibrated or perhaps re-calibrated to some other setting, which makes traversal impossible because it no longer responds to one direction.

 

[fearsomepirate]

Well, I've been playing the Cube version, so I can't say anything about the Wii controls.

This clearly was a response to massive fan whining. Wind Waker was flawed, but I had a heck of a lot more fun with it. The world felt new and different, and there was a lot of stuff to do, so that gave me reason to explore. People complained about the Great Sea being empty, but when you got right down to it, there really was quite a bit more going on there than in TP's fields. I can't even remember all the minigames I played and puzzles I solved to find pieces of heart, satchel expansions, various fairy blessings, and maps. I spent hours just collecting pictures of bad guys. The world also had some pretty curious and interesting characters, like the travelling salesmen and the little eskimo guy. TP completely lacked that kind of character.

Was WW a flawed game? Totally. The ending was clearly tacked on. But for some reason, it was a whole lot more fun for me than TP. I thought WW was a great performance with a lame ending, while TP was just one missed opportunity after another. For me, TP is a case study in why studios should never listen to idiot fans whining for a "proper sequel." "Proper sequels" suck.

 

[<nu>faust]

this game is that it's painfully easy

while tp is nowhere as challenging as most zelda fans/hardcore gamers(including myself) would have liked, calling it "painfully easy" is definitely an overstatement in my humble opinion. this game's difficulty setting is definitely higher than ww and easily comparable to oot's.

The other major downer is the complete lack of highly useful, yet not strictly necessary items..... but I rarely used it

what about fishing rod, magic armor and Ooccas ? without a doubt tp has more items/locations/thing to do than any other zelda game to date. also once i discovered how fun it is to snipe enemies with hero's bow/hawkeye combo, i never went back to using the standart bow again.

I'd also like to add that it's padded, unevenly paced, vaguely storied, stick to the numbers, fanservice horseshit.

it's padded...agreed, i also thought all those never-ending item hunts and all those mini-games were little bit too much for a zelda game.

unevenly paced...nothing much to say other than agreed again.

vaguely storied...agreed but i also think zelda games do not necassarily need to have detailed, deep, dramatic storylines anyways. zelda games are about puzzles, exploration and action. The presentation of link's story has never been a priority for miyamoto/aonuma or most of the hardcore zelda fans (imho of course)

stick to the numbers... well i guess when you are making a new entry to one of the the most cherished, most critically acclaimed, best selling series of all time, not diverting too much from the usual formula is not that bad of an option.

fanservice horseshit...well now you have crossed a line mister calling one of the most masterfully designed, wonderfully executed games of last gen as horse poop is nothing short of scandalous. yes tp has tons of minor issues, yes ninty hasn't exactly taken the zelda formula to the next level like they should, yes this game is not accessible as it should have been, etc etc..but despite all that, most critics&fans agree that this game is STILL one of the best games of out there.

 

[fearsomepirate]

while tp is nowhere as challenging as most zelda fans/hardcore gamers(including myself) would have liked, calling it "painfully easy" is definitely an overstatement in my humble opinion. this game's difficulty setting is definitely higher than ww and easily comparable to oot's.

I never lost more than a two hearts on any boss except the final one, and most bosses didn't get more than a single heart. In particular, the water boss never even attacked me once, let alone took off any hearts.

what about fishing rod, magic armor and Ooccas?

What is the POINT of the magic armor? You're already close to invincible just because enemies don't do meaningful damage. The dungeons practically throw orange rupees in your face, so it wasn't hard to come up with enough to buy it. And after buying it, I never used it.

I much more enjoyed hunting down the krakens and ghost ship in WW than fishing in TP, except the ghost ship should have been a dungeon. Finding the map pieces was actually fun, since there were challenges involved, although they should have just been the Triforce shards. Side quests in WW involved exploration. Side quests in TP were largely a matter of simply obtaining the item necessary to get yet another 100 rupees.

TP wasn't a bad game. The spinner was a great item, the sumo challenge was really cool, the dungeons were (for the most part) masterfully done, it was a gorgeous game with great art, the fighting system was vastly improved over WW, the double clawshot was cool, and the cutscenes in the first part of the adventure were really well-done. If the game had just been difficult enough to motivate the collection of heart pieces and rupees, or had characters that were worth interacting with, it would have been a lot more fun.

 

[<nu>faust]

I never lost more than a two hearts on any boss except the final one, and most bosses didn't get more than a single heart. In particular, the water boss never even attacked me once, let alone took off any hearts.

i beleive dungeon design, in which zelda's real challenge lies, can not be described as "painfully easy", you are absolutely right about the bosses though.

What is the POINT of the magic armor? You're already close to invincible just because enemies don't do meaningful damage.

what about cave of ordeals ?

 

[NERO]

Ummmmmm. How dare you offend this wonderful game <straightens taped spectacles with cardboard sword> I will slay you!!!

I finished it a week ago and enjoyed it. There is a lot to do, the world is huge (in all dimensions) and the combat - though ridiculously easy - is fun. The story is very well developed - for a Zelda game. Most Zelda games have zero story and the musings from Midna make up for the lacking story. I agree with those who complain about easiness, but which zelda game has ever been difficult (maybe except for Majora's Mask). Folks searching for a fighting fix should test the Cave of Ordeals. I would not have defeated the last floor (3 darknuts) had it not been for the magic armor.

I enjoyed the game just like I enjoyed the other Zeldas.

 

[SugarCoat]

the boss/sub-boss arenas didnt need to have 10 containers of ammo and hearts, thats all my main gripe was, though Gannon was definitely one of the hardest fights they've done yet since they went 3D, assuming of course you didnt read a walkthrough on how to get past each stage. I have to say though i wish that bastard would die already. Maybe they could pull some Duke Nukem style cutscene where Link tears off his head and craps on him or something, just get rid of him.

If anything though the hardest part of the game is undoubtebly the time it takes to complete.

 

[Crayon]

fanservice horseshit...well now you have crossed a line mister calling one of the most masterfully designed, wonderfully executed games of last gen as horse poop is nothing short of scandalous. yes tp has tons of minor issues, yes ninty hasn't exactly taken the zelda formula to the next level like they should, yes this game is not accessible as it should have been, etc etc..but despite all that, most critics&fans agree that this game is STILL one of the best games of out there.

Thank you for the reply.

It is fanservice horseshit! Look at the risks taken by WW. Fans whined and boy where they loud. And unfortunatly, Nintendo listened. They served the fans. And the results is a product with impeccable polish but little imagination and less personality.

This would be a good time to point out that it's one of the better games to come out recently. Please take all my bitching in the context of the overwhelming praise TP is getting.

 

[Blade]

What TP is, and this a positive or a negative depending on the person... but TP is a tour de force of established gameplay principles.

It's as Miyamoto said, probably about as far as the 3D Zelda games can go without changing dramatically from the formula used in OOT.

When Zelda resurfaces (beyond Phantom Hourglass) it will be significantly different. I'm certain.

That said, I wasn't drawn to any game (save perhaps Brain Age's Sudoku!) more this year. The polish is staggering. Even Gears of War was outdone by TP polish-wise, IMHO... and that's saying a lot given that GoW was a more focused experience.

 

[fearsomepirate]

Well, if it's the best they've got this year...I guess that this is a crappy year for gaming, and Nintendo is exactly right that the industry needs new ideas. I think I may need to pick up Baten Kaitos: Origins, as I enjoyed the first game far more than I thought I would. It's actually one of my favorite Cube games now, despite the strange plot, horrible voice acting, and ridiculous excess of magnus cards.