How does the background work in GTHD?

dodo3 · Sep 29, 2006

I'm not sure if I should have posted this in Console Games or not, but I figured this would be the best place to ask this question.

Anyways, I was wondering how the backgrounds work in GT: HD Premium. Here's a screenshot to show what I'm talking about:

http://ps3media.ign.com/ps3/image/article/734/734512/gran-turismo-hd-20060922115724998.jpg

Is it a low amount of polygons with high quality texturing + parallax mapping or is this done differently? It looks really good, but I am just interested in how it works. So if anyone could please explain how this technique works, it would be highly appreciated.

Also, this technique seems to be used in MotorStorm as well:

http://ps3media.ign.com/ps3/image/article/733/733836/motorstorm-20060921093048242.jpg

Not sure if you see what I mean (in the MotorStorm screen), but it looks like the same technique.

London Geezer · Sep 29, 2006

Well, unless PD intends to show off some dynamic lighting on the mountains (sun moving, or maybe some sort of shine - the shiny shine! - you get from certain kinds of rock for example), there really is little reason to use anything more than some very nice big textures on very few polygons (relatively speaking), maybe with speculars for that shine i mentioned... And for the REALLY far away mountains, i guess it's just a flat "wall" with another texture slapped on top.

inefficient · Sep 29, 2006

dodo3 said:
I'm not sure if I should have posted this in Console Games or not, but I figured this would be the best place to ask this question.

Anyways, I was wondering how the backgrounds work in GT: HD Premium. Here's a screenshot to show what I'm talking about:

http://ps3media.ign.com/ps3/image/article/734/734512/gran-turismo-hd-20060922115724998.jpg

Is it a low amount of polygons with high quality texturing + parallax mapping or is this done differently? It looks really good, but I am just interested in how it works. So if anyone could please explain how this technique works, it would be highly appreciated.

Also, this technique seems to be used in MotorStorm as well:

http://ps3media.ign.com/ps3/image/article/733/733836/motorstorm-20060921093048242.jpg

Not sure if you see what I mean (in the MotorStorm screen), but it looks like the same technique.

You don't need parallax mapping at that range. Mostly likely it's just a really carefully crafted high res texture on some low poly object.

ArturNOW · Sep 29, 2006

But these screenshot is from GTHD Classic which is out spring 2007 not premium

Arwin · Sep 29, 2006

ArturNOW said:
But these screenshot is from GTHD Classic which is out spring 2007 not premium

Classic and Premium come on one disc, and the Eiger track and the higher res car-models are part of Premium, not Classic.

I know, it's complicated. But try to keep up!

Graham · Sep 29, 2006

*edit*

Arwin · Sep 29, 2006

Graham said:
It's just a flat textured image. So someone went out and took a nice photo, then slapped it on a skybox.

*snip*

Ie, it looks wonderful in stills, but will probably look awful in motion.*sigh*.

*will probably look* is an interesting turn of phrase here ... you have not seen the videos, I take it, which could have saved you some work.

The mountains are 3D.

London Geezer · Sep 29, 2006

No no no... Some mountains are 3D (the closer ones), some are part of the skybox.

Graham · Sep 29, 2006

Sigh. Your right.

I went searching for all the images I could and couldn't find any other than those.
As for videos I haven't seen any, but just stumbled upon some new ones at playsyde.

Yes it's 3d, but not all that high detail.

I've removed my original comparison (although in fairness the section I singled out looked to have very little geometric detail in the comparison)

Squeak · Sep 30, 2006

One thing I don't understand or like in the GT games is the unnaturally subdued colour palette.
For example, look at the grass in the first screen dodo3 linked to, that's not how real grass looks.

ArturNOW · Sep 30, 2006

Arwin said:
Classic and Premium come on one disc, and the Eiger track and the higher res car-models are part of Premium, not Classic.

I know, it's complicated. But try to keep up!

I thought that Premium will be released in 2008 and that's how GT5 will look.

PiNkY · Sep 30, 2006

Don't realize what the fluff is all about...there are some low poly backdrops with high res textures...of course very well done artistically..but...you know...that has been done like a million times over on other games.

inefficient · Sep 30, 2006

Squeak said:
One thing I don't understand or like in the GT games is the unnaturally subdued colour palette.
For example, look at the grass in the first screen dodo3 linked to, that's not how real grass looks.

TV screens are typically much brighter than your PC desktop's screens. The colors are usually calibrated differently too.

I saw a video with Polyphony once about GT. And when they test their game they have to test it on dozens of types of screens. And they try very hard to strike the right ballance as far as tone and brightness. It's not a simple thing to do.

Arwin · Sep 30, 2006

inefficient said:
TV screens are typically much brighter than your PC desktop's screens. The colors are usually calibrated differently too.

I saw a video with Polyphony once about GT. And when they test their game they have to test it on dozens of types of screens. And they try very hard to strike the right ballance as far as tone and brightness. It's not a simple thing to do.

That's why they are starting to add brightness adjustment and such features into the game (GT4 had brightness adjustment for instance).

Metalmurphy · Oct 6, 2006

Sorry to bring this thread back up but i'm wondering if someone can help me convince a guy that the main mountain on GT HD is not a static pic and part of the skybox. Some guy claiming hes a game developer (doubt it) keeps claiming the mountain on the background is a static pic, even though i keep showing him proof that its not.

Here's the links of the posts i and him made so far so you can see how frustrated i feel right now

Arwin · Oct 6, 2006

The Ferrari video teaser has a replay cam which shows everything much more clearly. Have you tried using/showing him that?

Metalmurphy · Oct 6, 2006

Actually he used that trailer to show there was some "warping" of the moutain so it proves its "tied" to the skybox as a statc pic:
http://forums.gametrailers.com/showpost.php?p=936592&postcount=79

I however didn't see any streching or "warping" my self. There was only one ocasion where some "displacement" was visible but i think that has to the with the fact that the camera was zooming out and changing perspectives.

darkblu · Oct 6, 2006

first off, the fact that there's some warping does not prove anything - any 3d surface (not just the sky box) that spans a wide-ish view-volume to a sufficient depth will show 'warping' at a wide camera yaw motions - that's what the perspective correction does - the close parts of the object and the far (view-deep) parts of the object move/span at a different rate, hence the warping.

second off, check out this shot - the right edge of the mountain and the left low end, right above the higher side-wire, there's a big shadow spot reaching the edge of the shot - look right above that - there's a clear polygonal edge in the outskirt of the mountain.

edit: here's another shot at the same section of the mountain - the edge aliasing among the snow-covered peaks of the mountain is more than obvious.

btw, a general piece of advice: when you scrutinize images for pixel-level details, make sure the contrast and brightness of either the material or your display are bumped up - imperfections really stick out this way.

How does the background work in GTHD?

dodo3

London Geezer

inefficient

ArturNOW

Arwin

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Graham

Hello :-)

Arwin

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London Geezer

Graham

Hello :-)

Squeak

ArturNOW

PiNkY

inefficient

Arwin

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Metalmurphy

Arwin

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Metalmurphy

darkblu

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