Hamas ends cease-fire after senior leader killed?!?!

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Dr. Ffreeze

Regular
Hello All,

I have issues with people flat out lying. This looks like an outright lie to me, but am I missing something?

Suicide bombing kills 20 in Israel.

Hamas and Islamic Jihad claim responsibility.

Hamas leader gets killed by Israel gunship.

Hamas ends cease-fire after senior leader killed.


I would think that when Hamas's suicide bomber attacked an bus in Israel is when they ended their cease-fire. I am just missing something, or is the media able to lie outright.

/sarcasm on

Stevie and Mary call a truce.
Stevie walks up and hits Mary over the head with a baseball bat.
Mary then hits Stevie in the face.
Because Mary hit Stevie in the face, Stevie will no longer honor the truce.

/sarcasm off

/bog

Please tell me I am missing something,
Dr. Ffreeze
 
I believe the Israeli's did something against Islamic Jihad two weeks ago, for which the bus bombing was retribution, for which the killing of the Hamas leader was retribution, for which ending the cease fire was retribution.

But, of course, you can go back further and see that the bombing in Hebron (?) was the reason the IDF did something against Islamic Jihad. Who did the bombing because of this, who responded because of that...

etc. etc. etc.

At this point, it no longer matters who started what. They're all idiots. (Though I'd have vote for the suicide bombers for being the biggest idiots)
 
Biggest losers of this whole situation:pM Abbas. I hope during this chaotic time, he can show some b*lls, and cracks down on hamas.

later,
 
RussSchultz,

I believe the Israeli's did something against Islamic Jihad two weeks ago
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Ahh, I thought a cease-fire is when they all stopped firing and killing each other. Kinda like, lets all just start over and see if we can do this peace thing. I didn't know that during this cease-fire all of the groups in question kept firing.

Thankx,
Dr. Ffreeze
 
Like I said, I think Islamic Jihad took responsibility for some attacks outside the green line (borders of 1967) a few weeks ago, for which Israel did something in retaliation, which lead to...etc..


The whole thing about these stupid cease fires is all it takes is one whacko to set the whole thing off again.
 
The 'who did what in response to who' thing is a waste of time to follow. Too many positibilities for 'fale flags' to be exploited really :?
 
I have read up a small bit on the Middle East Crisis. It was a pro Jewish side, no point counter point type of a thing, but I have absolutely NO idea how they are ever going to life in peace. Are there are good ideas or plans that have even a slim chance of working? If so, what do they entail?

I just hate seeing civilians from both sides endure so much pain, suffering, and death.

Dr. Ffreeze
 
Dr. Ffreeze said:
Stevie and Mary call a truce.
Stevie walks up and hits Mary over the head with a baseball bat.
Mary then hits Stevie in the face.
Because Mary hit Stevie in the face, Stevie will no longer honor the truce.
Click to expand...

Mary's quite the tough little cookie. Taking a baseball to the head and punching back! :)
 
Stevie and Mary call a truce.
Stevie walks up and hits Mary over the head with a baseball bat.
Mary then hits Stevie in the face.
Because Mary hit Stevie in the face, Stevie will no longer honor the truce.
Click to expand...

/alternate scenario on


Mary has Stevie's cookies, and Stevie has Mary's candy.
Mary and Stevie duke it out for a few rounds then their parents force a truce.
Mary wants Stevie's candy, so she cuts off her own finger with a knife in secret and blames Stevie.
Still in shock at the boy's cruelty, the parents give Mary a machete to go after Stevie with.
Mary lops off Stevie's head and gets her candy back, jellybeans and all.

/alternate scenario off
 
I see. Lemme guess, you subscribe to the Mossad-behind-the-bombings-that-disrupt-the-peace-process theory?

Because the Mossad obivously has everything to lose if peace breaks out, unlike the militant groups who will win big and grow in influence.
 
RussSchultz said:
I see. Lemme guess, you subscribe to the Mossad-behind-the-bombings-that-disrupt-the-peace-process theory?

Because the Mossad obivously has everything to lose if peace breaks out, unlike the militant groups who will win big and grow in influence.
Click to expand...

Nope. Ffreeze just asked if he was missing something, and I provided an alternate theory, thats all. I mean if you stand back and look at it, in an all out war Mossad/Isreal would annihilate Hamas/Jihad/Palestine, so one has to question the issue from all angles.

Unless ofcourse you subscribe to the blood-thirsty-American & Isreali baby eating-evil dooer-Muslim theory ;) (in which case its pretty cut and dry)
 
zurich said:
Nope. Ffreeze just asked if he was missing something, and I provided an alternate theory, thats all. I mean if you stand back and look at it, in an all out war Mossad/Isreal would annihilate Hamas/Jihad/Palestine.
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If they were on some desert island, sure.

They're not. The entire arab/muslim world would rise up and defend their Palestinian "brothers".

As pragmatic as a deathmatch cage fight would be in theory, it just isn't tenable in the real world.

I obviously do not think this is cut and dry, nor are there any saints in the situation. Else I wouldn't have posted the "this causes that, which causes this, which causes that". Nor I wouldn't have said "everybody's an idiot".

And thank you, Kyleb, for the one-off cheap shot. It adds so much to the conversation.
 
What the hell would Israel do if Palestinians ever stopped fighting again? Personally I think they would just delay the issue till the next intifadah.

Talking about how the Palestinians want to drive Israel into the sea is all fine and well. There are of course a fair amount of Zionists who want to drive the Palestinians entirely out of the occupied territories, not only Jewish but also Christian Zionists I should add. Although they mostly seem to be US Christians. Hell they want to push existing borders with their neighbouring countries outward.

Israel always has seemed to be content letting the situation ground on and on, all the while keeping the Palestinians in legal limbo in a no-mans land they are slowly but surely shrinking. The Palestinians merely have a bad attitude standing in the way of peace, apart from the holy places but unlike with religious Zionism those do not constitute the entire country, Israel has religion standing in the way of it.

I find it naive to assume Israel wants peace, they cannot afford the price ... it would tear them apart. I think they really want subjugation, but if they cant get it they will take war.

Marco

PS. I know many Jews, who might even call themselves Zionist, think religious Zionism in the sense of restoring Israel to its old borders is diametrically opposed to the Torah ... but they dont exactly seem to be the driving force behind Israeli actions.

PPS. I understand the point of view from Christian Zionists, but could someone explain to me the reasoning behind Jews who after all generally do not accept Christ as their Messiah wanting to restore Israel in a religious sense? I fail to see their logic.
 
There are of course a fair amount of Zionists who want to drive the Palestinians entirely out of the occupied territories, not only Jewish but also Christian Zionists I should add. Although they mostly seem to be US Christians. Hell they want to push existing borders with their neighbouring countries outward.
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There are 'zionists' who believe that the two blue lines on the Israeli flag represent the Nile and the Euphrates. These are the people behind such parties as Molodet; a party who's one representative was only elected because Molodet voters moved to one community. They're a small minority, like Hamas, that caters to the worst fears and ambitions of the larger politcal body. The only difference is that this body is much much more acutely aware of public opinion.

I know many Jews, who might even call themselves Zionist, think religious Zionism in the sense of restoring Israel to its old borders is diametrically opposed to the Torah ... but they dont exactly seem to be the driving force behind Israeli actions.
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I think you're referring to Jews who believe that the creation of a Jewish state, secular or otherwise, is contrary to God's will. The Messiah, not some state, is to come and unite Jewry. God was the mastermind behind their fall, and it will be God who will end it I guess. I'm not comfortable with that mentality even if it's show humility... I know I'm not comfortable with the idea of relegating my fate to an invisible father-figure.

PPS. I understand the point of view from Christian Zionists, but could someone explain to me the reasoning behind Jews who after all generally do not accept Christ as their Messiah wanting to restore Israel in a religious sense? I fail to see their logic.
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I'm might be mistaken, but it seems you're assuming that the only religious 'restoration' is a Christian one.

Some Christian Zionists want to preserve Jews so that on the return of Jesus, he'll have an easier time killing all but 144,000 as Revelations speaks of. If there are no Jews to take the hit for the Rapture, then the deaths will have to come from the Christian population. I'm no expert on Christian crap, though. So when you see Christians going on about Israel, just keep this little nugget in mind and also know that 20-30% of Palestians are actually Christians. Why would Christians turn on fellow Christians?

Other Christian fundamentalists don't totally buy into the 'preserve' Jews argument. They want a Kingdom of God on Earth, and another prophecy has the Messiah will come/return to Earth once the Jewish Temple is rebuilt.

It's very difficult to lump any religion, Judaism, Christianity, Islam and Hinduism (any -ism for that matter) into one homogenous group. People are not mindless robots, just susceptible to charismatic individuals who know what buttons to push. They're masters at getting people to shed their responsibility and power in return for being able to blame others.
 
Back to what I believe was the topic, the I/P issue is just a stellar example of what I've referred to as the War Between One Percents. I'm sure others have seen this as well.

The one percent on each side, by hook or by crook, knowingly baits the other side into action against the 99%. The attacks invariably fall on the 99%, which they harness for even more retribution. Whether or not the one percent believes their own rhetoric is largely irrelevant, since they wish to remain in the 1%. This is how terrorism (state or independent) easily becomes the fight for freedom. Watch out for those who appeal to a sense of community, especially when it involves fear, then assume the worst. :)
 
AFAICS Christian Zionists simply believe the old covenant with the Jews about their land still holds, and since the Messiah came they should get it back ... and indeed rebuild their temple.
 
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