Global warming not man made?
- Thread starter K.I.L.E.R
- Start date
Well certainly ice cores have provided correlation with co2 for the last few ice ages hundred thousand years. But thats a chicken and egg issue... Interesting idea tho and had seen it in one scientists report saying when our solar system enters and leaves spiral arms of the galaxy seems to correlate to cooling or warming trends...
Willmeister
Newcomer
I'm rather annoyed with the argument that since 'Global Warming' may or may not exist, and if it does, it's not manmade, then we should all just continue to burn fossil fuels like there is no tomorrow. By supporting the behaviour of large international oil companies who suck up and kiss the asses of some of the most despotic regimes in the world, our thirst for oil in essence keeps many many people in the world in abject poverty and crippling fear. We're like drug addicts who pass off the crimes of our pusher for fear of losing our cheap supply; we don't want to offend them nor do we want to say anything that might get our pushers in any trouble. Look at the 911 Final Report for evidence. The White House blacked out 28 pages out of fear of offending the Saudis and virtually no one said a peep...
It's disturbing how people are obesessing over possiblities in the future while ignoring what's going on right now.
It's disturbing how people are obesessing over possiblities in the future while ignoring what's going on right now.
Silent_One
Newcomer
Who said that?
CosmoKramer
Newcomer
Silent_One said:
Ask Joe.
Joe DeFuria
Legend
CosmoKramer said:
Who said that?
Willmeister
Newcomer
We really don't know. We've only started collecting statistics over the last century and we can only now speculate using the historical methods. And since we don't know, there are people who say we should just continue 'buisness as usual'. To me, that's reckless.
Still, our dependence on oil is allowing despots to rule with an iron fist. People are suffering so people can drive SUVs in ignorant bliss... If that isn't indifferent self-interest, I don't know what is.
Still, our dependence on oil is allowing despots to rule with an iron fist. People are suffering so people can drive SUVs in ignorant bliss... If that isn't indifferent self-interest, I don't know what is.
Joe DeFuria
Legend
Willmeister said:
Since we don't know, there are people who say we should clamp the world economy, putting more people in misery so a few people can hug trees in ignorant bliss.
To me, that's reckless.
Willmeister
Newcomer
Yeah, let's not try and change even if it's in our own self-interest, because to do so may mean we could fall into the abyss remote as that would be. The usual 'conservative' excuse to do nothing: it might cost us something. Everything about modern 'conservatives' is about 'me me me.'
I'm totally against the 'save now, pay big later' mentality that seems to pervade the neo-conservative mind.
I'm totally against the 'save now, pay big later' mentality that seems to pervade the neo-conservative mind.
Will, don't be so extreme.
The idea behind Joe's thinking isn't "me me me", its "us us us".
If you cripple the economy to effect a change, you better be sure its going to have the desired effect.
Otherwise, you're just going to put a lot of people in the world in misery to benefit nobody.
The idea behind Joe's thinking isn't "me me me", its "us us us".
If you cripple the economy to effect a change, you better be sure its going to have the desired effect.
Otherwise, you're just going to put a lot of people in the world in misery to benefit nobody.
Joe DeFuria
Legend
RussSchultz said:
I'm sure Will has the best of intentions. What is continually troublesome and frustrating, (as was illustrated by his last post, and your response) is that people like Will don't see how someone with a different point of view can have the same good intentions....
Joe DeFuria
Legend
Willmeister said:
Yeah, because that's my mentality, or anyone else's for that matter.
Let me paint, again, with an equally one-sided brush:I'm totally against the "pay big now, and pay even bigger later" mentality that seems to pervade the leftist mind....
Isn't this fun? And soooooo productive to boot...
CosmoKramer
Newcomer
It's indicative how some people only see 'cost to society' when it comes to moving away from fossil fuels. Got much stock in Chevron, do ya?
I'd say the massive investments needed to shift to, say hydrogen, would be a major boost to the economy. It costs more in the short run but pays off in a little longer perspective (both economically and environmentally).
I'd say the massive investments needed to shift to, say hydrogen, would be a major boost to the economy. It costs more in the short run but pays off in a little longer perspective (both economically and environmentally).
Wow. I had no idea I was against research into alternative fuel sources.
Thanks for telling me that, so I can update my resume.
Thanks for telling me that, so I can update my resume.
Willmeister
Newcomer
I wouldn't put much faith into 'new' technologies. All it seems to do is postpone the inevitable.
What we really need is a total societal rethink. Do we really need all this sh*t? Does it make our lives any easier? Doesn't anyone else see that as we get more and more conviencences to save us time, the less we actually have?
What we really need is a total societal rethink. Do we really need all this sh*t? Does it make our lives any easier? Doesn't anyone else see that as we get more and more conviencences to save us time, the less we actually have?
Joe DeFuria
Legend
RussSchultz said:
You too, huh? I'll put it right below my entry for "Desires to enslave all the animals on earth, and kill off those who resist"
In any case, maybe we can sit back and, ironically, watch Cosmo and Will go at it as they discuss the "solution" to our "gluttonous" fossil fuel use...
An easy solution would have been to raise the MPG requirement for our fleet of cars. 25 years ago during the first Oil Shock of the 70's, Congress raised the MPG requirement, and the motor industry howled that it would destroy their business, cost thousands of jobs, and ruin the country. That didn't happen. They enabled the gas saving technologies that were available at the time and met the challenge.
Today our MPG average in our fleet of cars has "backslid" due to the fact that SUVs can be classified as trucks, so they do not fall under the CAFE standards that other vehicles have to comply with. It's already been shown that hybrid engines work very well, raising the average MPG from the mid 20's to the upper 40's. That would save millions bbl of oil per day, as 80% of our oil consumption comes from the cars on the road.
Unfortunately Congress didn't show a spine this time around and listened to the car companies, merely raising the MPG requirement by a piddling amount.
Today our MPG average in our fleet of cars has "backslid" due to the fact that SUVs can be classified as trucks, so they do not fall under the CAFE standards that other vehicles have to comply with. It's already been shown that hybrid engines work very well, raising the average MPG from the mid 20's to the upper 40's. That would save millions bbl of oil per day, as 80% of our oil consumption comes from the cars on the road.
Unfortunately Congress didn't show a spine this time around and listened to the car companies, merely raising the MPG requirement by a piddling amount.
Dr. Ffreeze
Regular
Willmeister,
/tangent on
I would agree with that, except that I do have lots of free time. I have somehow bucked the trend and don't care if I keep up with the Jone's. I don't have a boat, ATV, new car, motorcycle, cell phone, or other high expense items. I work mostly 40 hours a week, don't go on business trips, and spend most all of my time away from work with my Honey (RaR!). I am one of the happiest people that I know.
I kinda wonder if the general concept that we need items to be happy have influenced things like minimum wage (nother topic from another thread). If we have food, shelter, and a bit of fun money, what more do we really need except time to enjoy it? It is a free world however. I am happy to let those that want to climb the corporate ladder keep on climbing, while I sit back and enjoy the time I have on this earth. I do wonder if some of them might be happier if they would stop and look around a bit more. /shrug To each his own.
/tangent off
Dr. Ffreeze
/tangent on
I would agree with that, except that I do have lots of free time. I have somehow bucked the trend and don't care if I keep up with the Jone's. I don't have a boat, ATV, new car, motorcycle, cell phone, or other high expense items. I work mostly 40 hours a week, don't go on business trips, and spend most all of my time away from work with my Honey (RaR!). I am one of the happiest people that I know.
I kinda wonder if the general concept that we need items to be happy have influenced things like minimum wage (nother topic from another thread). If we have food, shelter, and a bit of fun money, what more do we really need except time to enjoy it? It is a free world however. I am happy to let those that want to climb the corporate ladder keep on climbing, while I sit back and enjoy the time I have on this earth. I do wonder if some of them might be happier if they would stop and look around a bit more. /shrug To each his own.
/tangent off
Dr. Ffreeze
