Ghost of Tsushima [PS, PC]

Haha I've not found out to be bad in that regard. But there is too much non-gameplay-gameplay.

For example, in a recent mission, I had to scout an area out. It's something like the fifth time I've done so. Each time it's the same and there's a little bit of dialogue about whatever item/area/character I've looked at. It's interactive, but it might as well not be. It's arguably gameplay, but this mechanic wouldn't hold up a game of its own.

There are a few too many instances like this, in which something - anything - is inserted into the flow of a mission to break up the fact that this game is pretty much "plan your ambush and then fight."

And it's very good at those two core mechanics, but it's becoming increasingly clear that they pose a problem for building a several tens of hours game around them.

Ultimately, riding around and picking fights is still great fun. It hasn't grown old at all. But it's yet another AAA game that's too bloody long. Storylines are stretched to the point of lacking impact. Non-gameplay-gameplay mechanics that would've been fine as one-offs are used to the extent that their flaws become apparent. New enemy types begin to feel rote. Everything gets diluted.

I'd much rather have a succinctly told story and then be free to scurry around an open world slashing fools.

Maybe I'm wrong, maybe chunks of mechanics are yet to unlock and blow my mind. Or maybe AAA games are wildly bloated because they have to appeal to the widest possible audience. Which requires content, which costs money. Which makes the project so expensive that it has to cater to the widest possible audience. Which requires content, which costs money. Ad infinitum.
 
yeah, Tsushima really feels like the dev team was getting harassed by the game longevity team. Or the game was originally planned to be much smaller, then expanded "simply" by reusing the original smaller game template to expand the whole thing. It really feels like a template on repeat.

Zelda BoTW also falls to this "template", but it was spiced up with some variations. Like the shrines that are template-heavy but really spiced up in how to reach it, puzzle, and interactivity department. The master sword challenge DLC is the most bare-bone, uninspired template-heavy thing in the whole game.

the good thing that "saved" the ridiculous amount of template being reused in Tsushima is its ridiculously amazing audio and visuals. Simply doing haiku (and i don't understand haiku at all) felt good! Yes its just super basic gameplay that basically means nothing other that for busywork to unlock stuff. But the visuals and audio are really really good.
 
Tkumpathenurpahl said:
Haha I've not found out to be bad in that regard. But there is too much non-gameplay-gameplay.

For example, in a recent mission, I had to scout an area out. It's something like the fifth time I've done so. Each time it's the same and there's a little bit of dialogue about whatever item/area/character I've looked at. It's interactive, but it might as well not be. It's arguably gameplay, but this mechanic wouldn't hold up a game of its own.

There are a few too many instances like this, in which something - anything - is inserted into the flow of a mission to break up the fact that this game is pretty much "plan your ambush and then fight."

And it's very good at those two core mechanics, but it's becoming increasingly clear that they pose a problem for building a several tens of hours game around them.

Ultimately, riding around and picking fights is still great fun. It hasn't grown old at all. But it's yet another AAA game that's too bloody long. Storylines are stretched to the point of lacking impact. Non-gameplay-gameplay mechanics that would've been fine as one-offs are used to the extent that their flaws become apparent. New enemy types begin to feel rote. Everything gets diluted.

I'd much rather have a succinctly told story and then be free to scurry around an open world slashing fools.

Maybe I'm wrong, maybe chunks of mechanics are yet to unlock and blow my mind. Or maybe AAA games are wildly bloated because they have to appeal to the widest possible audience. Which requires content, which costs money. Which makes the project so expensive that it has to cater to the widest possible audience. Which requires content, which costs money. Ad infinitum.
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This is one of the reasons I have never finished a true open world game. What's interesting is that MMORPGs are basically the same thing, however, the dynamics change when you have a multitude of people running about that you either randomly meet or party with that maintains my interest in something as monotonous as an open world game.

Regards,
SB
 
orangpelupa said:
yeah, Tsushima really feels like the dev team was getting harassed by the game longevity team. Or the game was originally planned to be much smaller, then expanded "simply" by reusing the original smaller game template to expand the whole thing. It really feels like a template on repeat.

Zelda BoTW also falls to this "template", but it was spiced up with some variations. Like the shrines that are template-heavy but really spiced up in how to reach it, puzzle, and interactivity department. The master sword challenge DLC is the most bare-bone, uninspired template-heavy thing in the whole game.

the good thing that "saved" the ridiculous amount of template being reused in Tsushima is its ridiculously amazing audio and visuals. Simply doing haiku (and i don't understand haiku at all) felt good! Yes its just super basic gameplay that basically means nothing other that for busywork to unlock stuff. But the visuals and audio are really really good.
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Agreed.

It really could've benefitted from being smaller. At least in terms of missions. Fewer missions with more set pieces (the more I've played, the more I think you're right about needing more set pieces) would've been a better balance IMO. That would then, in essence, force the developers to make the open world itself more compelling.

The way that individual characters have multiple missions is something of which I'm very fond. But I think they're often broken up a little too much. Something like 3 missions per character, each mission being about half an hour, and containing 1 set piece would be ideal IMO.

As it is, there are some characters around whom I've spent too much time and done too much faffing. But there are some who, in only three missions, have given me everything I can get from them, and their stories have been compelling throughout.

Silent_Buddha said:
This is one of the reasons I have never finished a true open world game. What's interesting is that MMORPGs are basically the same thing, however, the dynamics change when you have a multitude of people running about that you either randomly meet or party with that maintains my interest in something as monotonous as an open world game.

Regards,
SB
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True. I often struggle to complete open world games too. I think a lot of the time though, developers forget what makes open world games so much fun. I love just farting about in the GTA games, but their missions have often been a chore. However, the bank heist in GTA4 was a spectacular set piece, as were some of the heists in GTA5.

I'm increasingly of the opinion that the move isn't to fill the open world with lots of missions, but is instead to give a smaller number of missions, but with multiple ways of approaching them. And most importantly, give me a means of replaying those individual missions after I've completed them. Kind of like Hitman, but a Hitman game in which the individual (albeit large) levels have traversable space between them.

So there could be a safe in the middle of a village and said safe contains a list of all 11 of the colonel's secret herbs and spices. You could Rambo your way to it. You could stealth your way to it. You could stealth your way part way and Rambo the rest. You could speak to some characters in the area, maybe sow some discord between them and get someone to steal it for you; maybe initiate a gang war so you can easily wander in and steal the list while they fight.

techuse said:
There is almost none so don't get your hopes up. It's just a polished version of a Ubisoft open world game. If you liked the recent Assassin's Creed titles this is a belter version of them. If those weren't your cup of tea this likely wont be either.
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Yeah, unfortunately that feels more and more the case. Don't get me wrong, I still really like this game and recommend people play it, but it's not as organic as it first felt.

All of the ingredients are there though. I really hope they build upon this with a sequel of sorts. I prefer fantasy to historical realism (I'll read a book/Wikipedia or watch a documentary if I want historical accuracy) so I'd love to see a sort of spin-off. Maybe a ninja and samurai, cat and mouse scenario, with mid-combat costume/load out changes (like there are in this game, but integrated into the story.)


Sorry if this is all a bit incoherent. I only have access to my smartphone, so proofreading for structure kind of goes out of the window when the text box is essentially a post it note.

Anyway, lastly are a few things I'd like to see in a sequel/spin-off with a greater focus on developing a dynamic open world:
  • Challenging enemies to stand-offs (I think that's what they're called) is great fun. Keep those but give me patrols with greater numbers. Maybe something like a horn too, so I can just summon some whenever I'm out and about.
  • Maybe some dynamic enemy camps could randomly pop up for stealth->ambush->combat encounters.
  • The duels are fun, so it'd be great if, out and about, there were higher level enemies you could bump into and challenge to a duel. Perhaps there could be a particularly fancy, important looking leader to some patrols, so if I challenge them to a stand off, I have a duel with his fanciness, followed by the current stand off.
  • Battles would be a fun thing to run into: a dozen bandits and a dozen Mongols fighting over some resource; you could wait for the battle to play out, you could stealthily pick off the occasional enemy to sway the battle, or just run in and challenge the bastards.
  • Thieves could occasionally steal some resource from you, forcing you to give chase, maybe ending up in a dynamic bandit camp.
  • Horseback combat. If I'm riding somewhere and another horseback enemy rides along next to me, we could get into a fight as our horses stick to the road.
  • A more dynamic grappling hook. I don't want to just see a "use the grappling hook" prompt. I want to stand somewhere, equip the thing, and aim it at the exact point I want to climb to.
 
yeah the grappling hook is probably was pushed by the management that just following "paint by the numbers". Because other games got grappling hook, and it was praised in Uncharted 4, GoT also must have grappling hook

the creative team didn't agree with that, and simply tell the dev team to make grappling hook as barebone as possible (so they can work more on other more important stuff). just to satisfy management.
 
Ugh the more I play, the more I think that the gameplay team was being pressured by the management to prolong the gameplay.

Its getting ridiculous with multi step Quests that are as dry as the sands in the desert

I think I'll finish this one quest and then skip everything, just do the main story.

Btw the ghost mode also friggin annoying. The bar filled one by one but when I got got 1 hit by the enemy, all bars are gone.
 
Sony is too supportive, they allowed Bend to really go wild on the main campaign. It went so far it really compromised the pacing of the opening. According to the Days Gone game directors, the FIRST TWO CAMPS are just opening content and the real game starts with the third camp.

For Tsushima I only played first island, and there is so much content there.
 
I got really disappointed and felt a bit "cheated" when I discovered about what the game would really be about and now anachronistic and propagandist it was. Which makes me curious if the rumored "Ikkishima" expansion is real. Ikki is a smaller island, and makes sense for a little expansion, but the defense there offered no resistance to the invasion. They where obliterated in a day a thing.
What can they invent to happened there in terms of story?
 
Panino Manino said:
I got really disappointed and felt a bit "cheated" when I discovered about what the game would really be about and now anachronistic and propagandist it was. Which makes me curious if the rumored "Ikkishima" expansion is real. Ikki is a smaller island, and makes sense for a little expansion, but the defense there offered no resistance to the invasion. They where obliterated in a day a thing.
What can they invent to happened there in terms of story?
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False stories in real context is nothing new ?
 
Panino Manino said:
I got really disappointed and felt a bit "cheated" when I discovered about what the game would really be about and now anachronistic and propagandist it was.
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As somebody who has not managed to the leave the first island yet, please tell me this is not an Assassin's Creed-like Animus simulation thing. :runaway:
 

https://blog.playstation.com/2021/0...arrives-on-ps5-and-ps4-consoles-on-august-20/

While Director’s Cut players on both PS4 and PS5 will be able to experience the Iki Island content, PlayStation 5 players will have access to a few additional new features.

We’ve heard your feedback about the lack of Japanese lip sync in the original version of Ghost of Tsushima, and it’s something we worked hard to address in this new release. Thanks to the PS5’s ability to render cinematics in real time, cutscenes in Ghost of Tsushima and on Iki Island on PS5 will now offer lip sync for Japanese voice over.

We’re also happy to confirm that Ghost of Tsushima, Ghost of Tsushima: Legends, and the new Iki Island expansion will all take advantage of haptic feedback and adaptive triggers in the Director’s Cut. There will also be enhancements to 3D audio* on PS5, as well as drastically improved load times, 4K resolution options** and framerates targeting 60 FPS.
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Alongside the Director’s Cut, anyone who already owns Ghost of Tsushima will be able to download a patch containing some new updates. Once again, many of these updates are directly thanks to the constant stream of feedback you’ve been providing us since launch, which we’re extremely appreciative of.

All players will receive a patch with some new photo mode updates, new accessibility options for controller remapping, as well as the option to enable a target lock-on during combat. And for the person who tweets at us all the time asking for an option to hide your quiver during gameplay: yes, we’ll be adding that, too!

Finally, for Ghost of Tsushima: Legends fans, we’ll also be releasing some new updates, including an all-new mode that we’re excited to detail in the weeks to come. All Ghost of Tsushima: Legends*** updates will be available at no additional charge to owners of any version of Ghost of Tsushima on either platform.
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