French heat related deaths now estimated at 11,000

Pax, while it is plausible that there is an accounting difference between the way France and other countries count "heat related" deaths, I don't think it can explain away other effects that don't seem to show up in other countries

a) overflow of hospitals with people
b) lack of supply of COFFINS and REFRIGERATORS to handle corpses

If the US, for example, weren't probably counting mass deaths that happen during heat waves as "heat related", wouldn't you still expect there to be a surge in dead bodies that have to be buried and a surge of patients in the health care system?

You could explain that away by saying that the US health system can treat emergencies and surges in patients better and that we have a large stockpile of coffins or something, but that still looks bad for France's healthcare system.

On 9/11, New York hospitals were flooded with over 10,000 people, from those who were in the buildings with serious injuries, to those hit by falling debris, or choking on dust, yet it did not break down and fail to absorb those patients. Why? Because New York hospitals had disaster plans. As soon as news broke, they sprang into action and thousands of hospital beds were freed up, extra staff were recalled, etc


You could argue that French health officials simply didn't realize there was a disaster in the making, and didn't activate whatever disaster plans they had, but I still feel it doesn't fully explain the disaster.

My first questions would be:

a) is the French medical system understaffed in July/August? Is this acute, or is it chronically understaffed?

b) what is the capacity of the system to handle emergency vs preventive care. Is it more configured for long waits for preventive or outpatient care?

c) what sort of disaster plans do they have?

d) why did it take so long to realize the problem?

e) why do French nursing homes not have proper environmental controls? I don't care if your average temperature is a comfortable room temperature. Hospitals and old age homes are supposed to be strictly controlled environments: dirt, fungus, bacteria, temperature, lighting, sound, back up power, etc They should be designed to ALWAYS maintain proper environment, regardless of the outside weather or air.

f) for those old people who died alone in apartments, why didn't their relatives check in on them? My mother suffers from heart disease and lives 3000 miles from me, and everytime there is a serious heat wave or scary news item I call her to make sure she is ok, even if I am traveling.


Finally, with regards to accounting. I believe in the US, the CDC records everything (e.g. every death) and they have montly reports that show any surges in the death rate, which is one way they track any new disease outbreaks. Surely, a massive heat wave die off in the US would register with them, even if physicians file the cause of death as "natural"
 
http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2003-08-26-france-death_x.htm

As many as half the deaths were at nursing homes, which were short-staffed because many aides and doctors were on vacation and were overcrowded because many families had checked in elderly relatives and also headed off to beaches and mountains. During August, much of the nation goes on vacation, and it is common for elderly relatives to be left at nursing homes.

So most of the elderly who died, died like dogs who die of heat death when people leave them in the back of cars to go shopping on hot days. French vacationers essentially check their elderly into "kennels" for vacation.



Most nursing homes and hospitals lack air conditioning because of health laws. French authorities have long believed air-conditioning systems do more harm, by spreading germs, than good.

Talk about a deadly and stupid belief! Even consumers can get six stage air purifying HVACs now. They combine HEPA filter, two stage gas absorbion, UV light, ozone, and electrostatic charge. The HVAC in my house has a 3 stage filter: HEPA filter, charcoal filter, and ionization. It also has a "fresh air" switch that pumps stale air out of the house.

A HEPA filter can catch particles as small as virus spores, and HEPA + UV will eliminate even any mold risk due to humidity. If you're really scared, do routine filter and duct maintainence.


I could understand older homes not having these, but why should hospitals and nursing homes not have state of the art in air conditioning/purification?
 
DemoCoder said:
It's been twenty years since the US had a huge heat related death wave, and the last time it happened, it was only 1000 people.

1995 Chicago. Over 700 heat-related deaths. However, they seemed to have learned from their mistakes and have been much more ready for more recent heat waves, as I hope France will be able to do in the future.
 
My mistake, I thought it was 1975. The National Weather Service has been tracking excess deaths during heat waves since 1986, and Chicago 1995 is one of the worst on record.

National Weather Service said:
Heat kills by taxing the human body beyond its abilities. In a normal year, about 175 Americans succumb to the demands of summer heat. Among the large continental family of natural hazards, only the cold of not lightning, hurricanes, tornadoes, floods, or earthquakes - takes a greater toll. In the 40-year period from 1936 through 1975, nearly 20,000 people were killed in the United States by the effects of heat and solar radiation. In the disastrous heat wave of 1980, more than 1,250 people died.

North American summers are hot; most summers see heat waves in one section or another of the United States. East of the Rockies, they tend to combine both high temperature and high humidity although some of the worst have been catastrophically dry.


But if you scale by population, frequency, and severely of heat waves in the US, the related deaths are still much milder compared to France.
 
Well lack of AC is certainly not just a french issue. I dont know any nursing hom in my province to have AC nor in Northern Maine. My own institution doesnt have AC. Its expensive at a time when everyone is complaining about health care costs. Also lack of refrigerated morgue space or coffins isnt by itself a red flag. We have had surges in detahs in my own home town where the local funeral home had to ship bodies elswhere until they could be exposed due to short term overdemand for services which happens occasionally...

Rare but it can happen. Now saying that I do expect an investigation as 11 000 claimed deaths is quite a bit. Im just not certain if a similar event hasnt happend regularly in the US already. And if you'd be as aggressive to investigate it. If anything lack of socialized medicine with worsened lack of access here would have made the problem far worse.

Im a bit mystified as to what point you are trying to make too. If 11 000 people died of exposure next winter due to an once in a century colder than average blizzard that went further south than usual would you be accusing the private health care system in the US with its lack of intervention to those who cant pay. Does anyone keep tabs on the deaths by lack of access in the 40+ million americans who arent insured?

Im not sure there are as good anti extreme cold system in the southern US health care system as there is anti heat in France. I think its a foregone conclusion the next heat wave wont be treated the same either as they will expect its possibility this time.

I know some hospitals will defer during summer vacation non essential interventions. Thats on both sides of the border here... But such places as nursing homes are never staffed less due to vacation of other such. Althought if you ask me yeah nursing homes are understaffed... and its worse in Maine than in NB.
 
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