Fable, Proj. Gotham, and Halo for X2... and the Sky is Blue

Um that's not the point at all... Teasy was clear in what he said, he didn't say anything about timed exclusives specifically. He simply said:

"Too many of XBox's 'exclusive' games apear on the PC. If you have a decent PC there is almost no reason to get an XBox AFAICS."


...and I said that's not true as only a small percentage of exclusives from microsoft have appeared on the PC. it couldn't be more clear then that.
 
Qroach said:
Um that's not the point at all... Teasy was clear in what he said, he didn't say anything about timed exclusives specifically. He simply said:

"Too many of XBox's 'exclusive' games apear on the PC. If you have a decent PC there is almost no reason to get an XBox AFAICS."

...and I said that's not true as only a small percentage of exclusives from microsoft have appeared on the PC. it couldn't be more clear then that.
Click to expand...

Well, there seems to be 3 different points being made then! :p

I'll leave it to you guys to clarify... ;)
 
I have yet to see a quality arguement that PC sales cut significantly into console or console game sales. I just do not see it.

Totally different demographics and price ranges. SURE, there are exceptions. But like I said, I did not see Halo on the PC preventing Xbox sales.

And the reverse side is that MS benefits from BOTH platforms. They see them as "The Windows Gaming Platform and the Xbox". Both owned by MS.

What they are doing is LEVERAGING the PC for the Xbox; and vice versa.

I might be blind, but 100k Halo PC sales is a drop in the bucket when you compare 20M console units and ~7M Halo 2 sales. And there is nothing, absoluately nothing, that says IF there was no PC version they would have all bought the Xbox. Maybe 20%? 50%?

I am a PC gamer. But even I cannot afford to upgrade very 18mo. I went a 4 year stretch of NO PC gaming. The economics are totally different. I can buy a $150 console and $20 AAA bargin bin Console games that all look good... or buy a $1500 gaming PC, pay full price on new games (2 year old games are "dead" with no community left in 99% of cases) and know that in 12-18mo I need a new video card ($200-$400) to enjoy new games.

PCs and Xbox are totally different markets. There is some overlap as Teasy points out, but I do not see the PC market significantly cutting into the Xbox.

I see the reverse: I see PC titles getting ported to the Xbox. This helps the Xbox, but it also helps PC game makers, giving them a larger GAMING platform to make profits in a more and more brutal PC world. I think the BENEFITS of the PC-Xbox connection far outweigh any possible down side.

Oh well, I guess we all look at it differently :D
 
Quincy you can bet MS paid for a lot of the exclusives that weren't from there own studio. So how much more would it have cost to get those games only on XBox rather then XBox and PC? That's why I'm not just talking about MS games. The argment is not crap at all. Look at my list, those are 15 of the very best XBox exclusives. I actually forgot Fable which makes 16 and that game is also coming out for PC. As I said out of total XBox exclusives the ones on PC may only be 30%, but out of the best exclusives its a lot more then that.

As for applying this to GameCube with Resident Evil 4. Well at this point it seems RE4 hasn't sold GC consoles as I said it wouldn't once it was announced for PS2. But anyway if you look at GC's top exclusives (again out of its top 50 at GR) its quite a different picture to the one above:

Blue equals games that will or have been ported to any other system.

Metroid Prime
Metroid Prime 2
Wind Waker
Resident Evil 4
Viewtiful Joe
Viewtiful Joe 2
Super Mario Sunshine
Eternal Darkness
Smash Brothers Melee
Star Wars Rogue Leader
Star Wars Rebel Strike
Resident Evil
Resident Evil 0
F-Zero GX
Pikmin
Pikmin 2
Super Monkey Ball
Super Monkey Ball 2
Mario Kart Double Dash
Animal Crossing
Paper Mario
Tales of Symphonia

Out of 22 exclusives from GC's top 50 games only 3 are already on another system with 2 more to come. But this isn't really about GC so lets not turn this into a XBox vs GC argument.

How can you say that when you put games in blue on your list that have yet to appear on a PC
Click to expand...

I can say that because its true. This isn't about bashing the XBox, its about my opinion that having so many of its top exclusives on PC hurt its sales. Its about the opinion that changing that for XBox 2 would help XBox 2 sales. I said very clearly in my post that one or two of the games on the list were not yet on PC but would be, and that is enough to have an effect.
 
Quincy

I went over my post straight after posting and edited a lot of it, as usual :) I can get a bit obsessed with saying things exactly how I want to say them (too many people jump on anything I say for me not too) so I often go through 2 or 3 edits.

Um that's not the point at all... Teasy was clear in what he said, he didn't say anything about timed exclusives specifically. He simply said:
Click to expand...

Why does that matter though? I don't understand the significance there at all.

Acert93

That would be fine if we were only talking about Halo, but we're not.

kyleb

Is Halo 2 not coming out for PC?
 
Halo was but an example and misses the point. What I said is much broader than the scope of one game but deals with the entire PC as a platform compared to the Xbox.

In numbers, how many millions of Xbox sales were lost due to PC ports? Then reverse it: How many PC-to-Xbox ports helped Xbox sales.

I can tell you just looking at the bare logistics that a gaming console sells a mangitude greater games and has a much larger active install base. And this does not even begin to entertain the issue that PC gamers != Concole gamers. There is overlap, but different price range, different gaming tastes, and even different place of gaming. People may very well buy a Xbox, even if they have a PC, because they want to play games in their living room. So back to an example: many PC gamers may prefer playing Rallisport Challenge with 4 friends in their living room. But do not strain too much at the example.

Ps- Halo 2 is a "blue" item, although it has never been announced for the PC--it is, as of of this time, an Xbox exclusive.

EDIT: Ignore the PS. That is what happens when someone leaves their PC half way through a post and forgets to hit submitt while the open up their new toy... in this case a nice new Cordless Optical Trackman came in the mail ;)
 
Acert93

In numbers, how many millions of Xbox sales were lost due to PC ports? Then reverse it: How many PC-to-Xbox ports helped Xbox sales.
Click to expand...

But why does the second point require the first? All I'm saying is I think it would be a positive thing for MS to get more games that are XBox/XBox2 only. By all means get PC games ported to XBox and XBox2, but at the same time do everything you can to get the best XBox/XBox2 games to stay only on XBox/XBox2. They seem to do that when it comes to keeping games from other consoles but they apear to think the PC is irrelivant to XBox sales, I don't agree at all. Maybe its not always feasable to keep a game totally exclusive but I'd think at least MS would keep there own games XBox exclusive. Either way from my perspective the fact that so many of XBox's top exclusives apear on the PC is the reason I don't own the system. People here can believe all day long that I wouldn't buy it because I like Nintendo. But in reality I go where the games are. I've owned the Amstrad 464, the Master System, The Amiga 600, the MegaDrive (Genesis), the N64, the Saturn, the Dreamcast, the GC and the Playstation for a a while. I buy the system that has the games I have to play. XBox has some of those games, but the same games are on the PC or coming soon on the PC. That's just the way I see it anyway.
 
Alot of the Xbox to PC ports come out up to 6 months later. (Kotor, Halo, Riddick, etc) and by that time they're old hat for many xbox owners. I think its silly and childish to be upset that non-xbox owners can enjoy the same experience 6 months down the road. I'm sure nextgen if MS comes out on top we'll see alot more xenon only exclusives (especially from Rare and the Japanese devs) but since they were courting alot of PC devs this round and fighting for 2nd place it made sense for them to make concessions just to get people to release games. We'll see, but Teasy does have a point MS needs to offer more games that can't be played anywhere else.

I use to play alot of PC multiplayer games but since LIVE came out I hardly ever play PC shooters online anymore. The reason is VOICE and the fact everyone on live has a headset. Adds a completely new aspects to online team play and now PC online shooters seem flat to me without it. I enjoyed Rainbow Six alot more on the xbox because of this even though the PC version looks 3x better. Thats usually the reason Ill go for an Xbox version over a PC version now. I realize you can do voice on PC titles using 3rd party software, but that requires great organization and planning skills and not being able to play on a whim. In my experience it makes it more of a chore to get 8-12 people on at the same time. IMO what Xbox did for online play was revolutionary and well worth $4.16 a month ($50 a year).
 
Teasy said:
Either way from my perspective too many of XBox's best games are released on the PC for the XBox to be worth buying. That's just the way I see it.
Click to expand...

It's debatable whether that list you posted actually consists of the Xbox's "best exclusives". I mean, you've got TopSpin there but no Steel Battalion? How about Phantom Dust, Stranger's Wrath, DOA3, Kingdom Under Fire, etc...? There are plenty of reasons to own an Xbox aside from the "top" games (which, by the way, KOTOR 2 is nowhere near being).
 
Confidence-Man

Well yeah the best games on a system are completely urguable. I just took the games listed above from GameRankings. I looked at the XBox top 50 and took all the XBox exclusives plus their sequals from that top 50 games. I'm not denying that there are plenty of reasons to buy an XBox (for other people, my own person tastes are just that, my own). Otherwise 20 million people wouldn't have bought the system. I'm only saying that keeping more games XBox exclusive would give even more reason.

BTW I didn't list Strangers Wrath because I thought it was also a PS2 game. But now I see it was cancelled for PS2.

Pozer

We'll see, but Teasy does have a point MS needs to offer more games that can't be played anywhere else.
Click to expand...

Yeah that's all I'm trying to say. I also agree that Live has been a good move as far as differentiating games on XBox goes.
 
Confidence-Man said:
Teasy said:
Either way from my perspective too many of XBox's best games are released on the PC for the XBox to be worth buying. That's just the way I see it.
Click to expand...

It's debatable whether that list you posted actually consists of the Xbox's "best exclusives". I mean, you've got TopSpin there but no Steel Battalion? How about Phantom Dust, Stranger's Wrath, DOA3, Kingdom Under Fire, etc...? There are plenty of reasons to own an Xbox aside from the "top" games (which, by the way, KOTOR 2 is nowhere near being).
Click to expand...


On a side note Steele Battalion is probably the best game and online experience I've ever had. Period. Going back to normal games was hard. :D
 
Teasy said:
I'm only saying that keeping more games XBox exclusive would give even more reason.
Click to expand...

Perhaps. Of course, it also works the other way.

I know if games like Morrowind, KOTOR, Invisible War, Thief 3, Doom 3, etc... didn't come to a console I probably would've upgraded my PC at some point.
 
It's sad to say but 90% of PC's arent capable of playing Doom3, Dues Ex2, Half-Life2, Kotor, riddick, Halo without it looking like an ugly sideshow. I blame OEMs for that and the PC price wars.

My buddy in the next cube to me at work just got a new p4 system with Intel Graphics onboard and he installed Halo and it looked like a N64 game and it had bad graphics errors. The average person that buys cheap Dells and HPs consider the xbox a graphics leap over the PC they bought in the last year.

Its crappy but I expect mainstream PCs to finally catchup with the xbox this year. To the average Joe gamer a $150 xbox looks like a deal compared to $500 HP that wont play jack anyway.

MS is only loosing out on the l33T enthusiast PC market. Most of which have $150 tied up in Ram alone.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. I challenge anyone to build me a $150 PC and show me Doom3, riddick, and Kotor looking better than an on an Xbox.
 
Acert93 said:
And last time I checked, Halo PC sales did not hurt Halo OR Halo 2 ;)
Click to expand...
Imagine if Halo PC had come out at the same time (rather than 2 years late, by which time superior games had stolen the vehicular-shooter market), and had been good. Halo carried the XBox single-handedly early on, had it been available on another platform with a pre-existing installbase, I think MS would have had a much harder time. I also have a faint inkling Halo PC's sales were rather lacklustre because the game pretty much sucked compared to the competition.
 
Pozer said:
It's sad to say but 90% of PC's arent capable of playing Doom3, Dues Ex2, Half-Life2, Kotor, riddick, Halo without it looking like an ugly sideshow. I blame OEMs for that and the PC price wars.

My buddy in the next cube to me at work just got a new p4 system with Intel Graphics onboard and he installed Halo and it looked like a N64 game and it had bad graphics errors. The average person that buys cheap Dells and HPs consider the xbox a graphics leap over the PC they bought in the last year.

Its crappy but I expect mainstream PCs to finally catchup with the xbox this year. To the average Joe gamer a $150 xbox looks like a deal compared to $500 HP that wont play jack anyway.

MS is only loosing out on the l33T enthusiast PC market. Most of which have $150 tied up in Ram alone.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. I challenge anyone to build me a $150 PC and show me Doom3, riddick, and Kotor looking better than an on an Xbox.
Click to expand...

Hmm...
512MB ram for $50
Cheap socket A mobo for $20
Low to mid range Athlon XP for $50
Geforce 3 level card $30
Well, that's $150 to upgrade an existing PC and it might come out looking marginally better than an xbox.(due to the sharper screen, and possibly an 800x600 res max instead of 640x480)
If you need a whole PC, then....
$30 case with power supply
$5 for cheap mouse and keyboard combo
$20 super small and slow harddrive
A free after rebate cd drive
So a whole PC capable of running Doom 3 for $205... back when xbox was $300 it wasn't too hard to build a complete PC capable of marginally outdoing an xbox, but PC parts just don't drop much lower than they are, they just get faster/better for minimal additional cost.
 
Fox5 said:
Pozer said:
It's sad to say but 90% of PC's arent capable of playing Doom3, Dues Ex2, Half-Life2, Kotor, riddick, Halo without it looking like an ugly sideshow. I blame OEMs for that and the PC price wars.

My buddy in the next cube to me at work just got a new p4 system with Intel Graphics onboard and he installed Halo and it looked like a N64 game and it had bad graphics errors. The average person that buys cheap Dells and HPs consider the xbox a graphics leap over the PC they bought in the last year.

Its crappy but I expect mainstream PCs to finally catchup with the xbox this year. To the average Joe gamer a $150 xbox looks like a deal compared to $500 HP that wont play jack anyway.

MS is only loosing out on the l33T enthusiast PC market. Most of which have $150 tied up in Ram alone.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. I challenge anyone to build me a $150 PC and show me Doom3, riddick, and Kotor looking better than an on an Xbox.
Click to expand...

Hmm...
512MB ram for $50
Cheap socket A mobo for $20
Low to mid range Athlon XP for $50
Geforce 3 level card $30
Well, that's $150 to upgrade an existing PC and it might come out looking marginally better than an xbox.(due to the sharper screen, and possibly an 800x600 res max instead of 640x480)
If you need a whole PC, then....
$30 case with power supply
$5 for cheap mouse and keyboard combo
$20 super small and slow harddrive
A free after rebate cd drive
So a whole PC capable of running Doom 3 for $205... back when xbox was $300 it wasn't too hard to build a complete PC capable of marginally outdoing an xbox, but PC parts just don't drop much lower than they are, they just get faster/better for minimal additional cost.
Click to expand...

You forgot.
1. DVD Drive $30
2. Shipping
3. a 5.1 sound card which most $20 motherboards dont have. (it maybe possible though)
4. NIC (see #3)
5. WindowsXP home edition OEM $50 easy (laughable, i know)
6. Someone to do the work, if your an average joe.
7. not having to deal with lowest bidders on pricewatch, priceless.

but you make good points
 
Fodder said:
I also have a faint inkling Halo PC's sales were rather lacklustre because the game pretty much sucked compared to the competition.
Click to expand...

Pretty faint ;)

http://www.cgonline.com/content/view/570/2/
Wednesday, 23 March 2005

The NPD Group has released its latest list of the top 10 best selling PC games in the US, this time for the week ending March 12.
1 The Sims 2 University Expansion Pack Electronic Arts $34
2 World Of Warcraft Vivendi Universal $50
3 The Sims 2 Electronic Arts $45
4 Aquazone Desktop Garden 1.0 Allume Systems $15
5 Half-Life 2 Vivendi Universal $51
6 Star Wars: Republic Commando LucasArts $44
7 The Sims Deluxe Electronic Arts $20
8 Star Wars: Knights Of The Old Republic 2: The Sith Lords LucasArts $44
9 Halo: Combat Evolved Microsoft $29
10 MVP Baseball 2005 Electronic Arts $25
Click to expand...

I sure don't see Farcry or Doom 3 up there. ;)
 
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