Ejected sales thread noise *spawn

[zupallinere]

Even at 399 consumers will reject x1 in favor of PS4 due to the fact that at this time there is little to differentiate either console other than PS4 is significantly more powerful than X1

MS needs to be at 299 or secure a bunch of big exclusives or buy a developer that owns desirable IP.

I would be very happy to a 299 dollar price point for the XB1 and I am sure they would sell a ton of them. Whether or not MS as a business wants to take on those losses is another story. We actually don't know how the average customer will price the performance differential between the 2. It may be that a bd-driveless XB1 with a re-engineered case and motherboard can hit that price point and get the XB1 back on top or merely having bundles and temp price drops on existing skus can serve the same purpose.

I think we are underestimating somewhat how much of an effect not having the kinect bundled in will have on sales of the XB1. I am not saying it's gonna be a blow out in June or July for the XB1 but let's not forget that they introduced the "all seeing eye" ( down to infrared ) during the NSA scandal and I think of lot of folks, certainly in the US, reacted negatively to it. I know you don't need it connected but why pay MORE for something that is a negative added value ? I know the timing of the scandal wasn't fair for MS and it is silly to engage in fear mongering about the kinect but that doesn't mean that sales weren't affected at least for a certain demographics that previously might have bought the thing. It's not logical but logic isn't the best gauge of consumptive behavior .

 

[Phil]

....yet at the same time and despite the NSA scandal, devices such as the iPhone 5s or the new Samsung Galaxy S5 with inbuilt fingerprint scaners (which were highly criticized from a security point of view) still sell like hot cakes.

While the NSA scandal sure was perfect timing, I don't think it had much impact on the grand scale. It was but one reason among many why Kinect hasn't caused the (r)evolution Microsoft hoped for.

 

[zupallinere]

....yet at the same time and despite the NSA scandal, devices such as the iPhone 5s or the new Samsung Galaxy S5 with inbuilt fingerprint scaners (which were highly criticized from a security point of view) still sell like hot cakes.

While the NSA scandal sure was perfect timing, I don't think it had much impact on the grand scale. It was but one reason among many why Kinect hasn't caused the (r)evolution Microsoft hoped for.

I won't disagree that on a grand scale it wasn't a big deal I will say that when it comes to purchasing this console or that console it may have been a slightly bigger deal. Sure cell phones have front facing cameras and such but folks are already used to those cameras as opposed to the new one in the living room, as I said logic isn't necessarily useful in thinking about these things and as for biometric identification I think that folks would have bought them with or without it so I don't see them as being as relevant forgetting the price difference of course

 

[patsu]

NSA ? Sigh...

It will be interesting to see if countries push for a hierarchical Internet in the future as opposed to a flat one today. US beat everyone else when Internet is flat. But China chased US Internet companies out by carving a private space for itself. It will also have better leverage when dealing with NSA. I am sure Russia, Germany and the Middle East folks are wary about an uncontrolled US too.

XB1's biggest complain was the used games sales restriction. Second is the "power". Kinect privacy is a concern but I think that's multiplied by the notion that MS is not trustworthy.

They need to fix the trust issues first.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

....yet at the same time and despite the NSA scandal, devices such as the iPhone 5s or the new Samsung Galaxy S5 with inbuilt fingerprint scaners (which were highly criticized from a security point of view) still sell like hot cakes.

I don't see the correlation? The Kinect camera (and PSeye) are designed by nature to capture everything that goes on in front of them and pass it to a device (the console) which can broadcast it externally. The Snowden leaks suggest Kinect has been broken, as in it could be remotely activated without the owner's knowledge.

The fingerprint sensor in the iPhone 5S does not store your fingerprint, only an algorithmic representation so the original print is no more reproducible than me algorithmically converting your full name to a 32-bit CRC checksum and latter trying to derive your name from it. The version of the print is only stored in the CPU itself (not even in RAM) and is not transmitted anywhere else.

But I really don't think privacy concerns impacted Kinect as much as the lack of games paired with the cost estimates of the component.

 

[patsu]

In my mind, it should not be a bigger concern than K1.

iOS fingerprinting platform is a different creature altogether.

 

[Phil]

DSoup,

I think the point was that the NSA/Snowden scandal highlighted quite a bit of security concerns on a broad scale. The Kinect vulnerability is a small part - even the camera hack is old news, relevant to just about any laptop outthere with a built-in front-facing camera. The whole scandal came out in a time when, if I recall correctly, iPhone 5s was unrevealed with its finger-print-sensor as a bullet-point feature, but was highly criticized over security concerns relating to the saving (or digitalizing) of biometric data in an every day and hackable device. All I wanted to point out was that this device, just as many devices following it (Galaxy S5) are selling in huge quantities despite all the security concerns.

In that sense, I think we are both in agreement that the NSA/Snowden impact is relatively little on how the Xbox One is faring..

 

[patsu]

DSoup,

I think the point was that the NSA/Snowden scandal highlighted quite a bit of security concerns on a broad scale. The Kinect vulnerability is a small part - even the camera hack is old news, relevant to just about any laptop outthere with a built-in front-facing camera. The whole scandal came out in a time when, if I recall correctly, iPhone 5s waMs unrevealed with its finger-print-sensor as a bullet-point feature, but was highly criticized over security concerns relating to the saving (or digitalizing) of biometric data in an every day and hackable device. All I wanted to point out was that this device, just as many devices following it (Galaxy S5) are selling in huge quantities despite all the security concerns.

In that sense, I think we are both in agreement that the NSA/Snowden impact is relatively little on how the Xbox One is faring..

The original complains were magnified because Kinect camera and mic could not be turned off, and the net was also always on. There were also rumors about new form of advertisements. Plus the unit sits right in the living room, capable of observing everyone. The combined picture scares people off.

Fingerprint recognition is completely passive. The phone won't grab your finger to force-read your print. . Even if you use it, the fingerprint signature is kept in the Secure Enclave, only used by Apple. They waited until people are comfortable with fingerprint recognition.

 

[eastmen]

THe original complaints were maginifed because on some forums hating ms became a huge thing to do to fit in.

Kinect is no different than a cell phone. My cell phone has 2 cameras , 5 mics and allways has the internet connected oh and it follows me every where.

In comparision my Kinect is just attached to one tv in a single room in my house and I can easily shut the console off when its not being used.

The whole Kinect and privacy thing was just silly.

 

[patsu]

The always-on camera in a living room concern is not new. It was documented in the 80s that housewives were afraid of the pilot units. They put stuff in front of the camera to obscure it even when powered off.

That studies might be old but it is relevant.

With NSA and recent news about unexpected open source holes, the fear might be prudent after all.

Kinect is different from a cellphone of course. They are pitched differently to the consumers. They are built and perceived differently. No one will take a Kinect and its associated services when they go outdoor.

 

[wco81]

The fingerprint sensor in the iPhone 5S does not store your fingerprint, only an algorithmic representation so the original print is no more reproducible than me algorithmically converting your full name to a 32-bit CRC checksum and latter trying to derive your name from it. The version of the print is only stored in the CPU itself (not even in RAM) and is not transmitted anywhere else.

In fact, to the extent that Touch ID encourages more people to lock their phones (a lot of people don't want to bother with having to enter a pass code every time they pick up a phone), that means the data is locked with full device encryption.

I lost my iPhone in Amsterdam and started getting phishing attempts to try to get me to enter my iCloud password on a fake site. That suggests whoever has my phone is trying to find a way to unlock it -- otherwise, it's useless to them.


Hilary Clinton was saying it's ironic for Snowden to go hide out in Russia after objecting to NSA spying, because whenever she visited Russia as Secretary of STate, she had to leave her electronics devices on the plane because they didn't trust that they'd be secure from Russian surveillance.

 

[wco81]

Web cams are compromised. So to have an always-on device listening and watching …

How could MS not anticipate the objections people would have?

 

[3dilettante]

THe original complaints were maginifed because on some forums hating ms became a huge thing to do to fit in.

It had to be more than that.
They didn't change the Xbox One name, and ALL the forums made/make/are making fun of that.

Hilary Clinton was saying it's ironic for Snowden to go hide out in Russia after objecting to NSA spying, because whenever she visited Russia as Secretary of STate, she had to leave her electronics devices on the plane because they didn't trust that they'd be secure from Russian surveillance.

It's probably not ironic for the reasons she's thinking.

 

[Arwin]

I think the Halo bundle will do more for X1 than the 399 version. It may win X1 one month, but I expect the rest will be for PS4.

I also think next-gen sales overall will be very high this holiday, as supply is good, price is at $399 or lower (deals) and high profile cross-platform releases will dwindle, or be very limited on last gen.

 

[MrFox]

The Victim argument being used to counter the NSA argument is an equally crazy conspiracy theory.

I don't know why this discussion keeps coming back. The reasons for PS4 selling more than XB1 has been expressed in polls, forums, and by analysts for almost a year. Some gamers were uneasy about having an always on camera on a connected device, it's normal, but I can't recall any reasonable argument for skipping the XB1 because of that, it was just a small thing adding up to everything else. Anyone paranoid enough would just disconnect it, like they would disconnect the PS camera, so no harm done either way.

There were other much bigger factors (in no specific order): the higher price, the lower power, the whole DRM sequence of events, the aimless marketing and message, the anti-consumer attitude from top execs, individual gamers preferences for exclusives/studios, and even circles of friends already on a specific console/brand. The trust eroded, and they have a lot of work to recover it. Spencer is very very good at it so far. Mehdi not so much.

 

[specwarGP2]

I think we are underestimating somewhat how much of an effect not having the kinect bundled in will have on sales of the XB1.

I doubt X1 decoupled from kinect will stimulate sales significantly. At this point, a kinectless X1 is just a significantly weaker PS4 that has a few different exclusives that no one really knows anything about.

Everyone uses google now and its easy to find out that PS4 outperforms x1 by a good margin in all the big multiplats.

 

[Inuhanyou]

gee wiz. a weaker PS4 99% of the same library. Is the ecosystem that doesn't carry over from 360 that much better that people would go for Xbox one instead of PS4? especially considering PS4 has the head start at this point and monopolizes all third party positions

 

[Brad Grenz]

Neither exclusive lineup for the fall is particuarly great.

Sunset Overdrive looks like a niche title, one that would be unlikely to garner as much attention if it wasn't exclusive (doesn't strike me as having broad appeal). Halo Collection will sell to XBO owners looking for something to play, but won't entice 360 or PS3 owners that haven't upgraded to pay the asking price for an XBO. Fable Legends will likely bomb. Likewise Driveclub will probably do a million or two but won't be a system seller. And TLOU HD won't drive system sales either.

Fable Legends is a 2015 title anyway.

When did Ubi say Xbox One would get exclusive AC content?

And who says that lineup is definitively better than the competition? I would say the PS4's lineup from now until the holidays is at least arguably just as 'strong'. PS4 has the Destiny Beta in mid July, TLOU coming in late July, Infamous First Light and Hohokum in August, Destiny bundle with exclusive content and marketing rights in September, Driveclub in October, LittleBigPlanet 3 in November, exclusive coop mode (where the second player doesn't even need the game to play) and most likely marketing rights for Far Cry 4 (and probably Battlefield Hardline since it got an exclusive beta). Sony says that there will be certain perks for GTA V on PS4, too. They already announced an exclusive feature where you can transfer your PS3 OR 360 data to PS4. Considering the PS3 got early marketing rights for GTA V, I think the PS4 will as well. PS4 also gets exclusive content for Diablo III. Plus Guilty Gear Xrd releases sometime in the fall and possibly even The Witness, Singstar and Planetside 2. Not to mention the indie titles.

There are no exclusive system sellers this year. Halo MC will give a decent bump, but that's pretty much it.

Yeah, the narrative going around that MS has more exclusive the rest of the year is basically fabricated. Both have a driving game. Both have a nice looking remaster. Both have a F2P spin on their popular music game. MS has Sunset Overdrive, Sony has LBP3. Microsoft will have some exclusive Kinect stuff like Fantasia and Shape Up, but Sony will have exclusive Japanese stuff like the Yakuza game and F2P titles like PlanetSide 2. Sony will likely have more exclusive indie and digital games through the Holidays as well. So anyone who say MS has a more stacked lineup is just ignoring the numbers because they think Sunset Overdrive looks cool.

And since all of those games will be overshadowed by a really strong looking fall from 3rd parties, it hardly matters in the greater scheme of things.

 

[AzBat]

Free to Play for Xbox One Now:
Powerstar Golf
Killer Instinct
Project Spark

Free to Play for Xbox One Coming 2014:
Warframe
Happy Wars

Not great, but not non-existent either.

ID@Xbox has a few exclusives too. I wouldn't say the XB1 has a great exclusive lineup this year, but considering the past year I think they've done well considering. It may not be "more stacked" than the PS4, but it's definitely not as fabricated as you make it sound either.

Tommy McClain

 

[Brad Grenz]

Microsoft is still playing catch-up on both the indies and F2P games so that doesn't really change the math. Having a subjective opinion on how their year went is immaterial to a discussion about demonstrably false claims about who is releasing more games in time for Christmas.