Could Dreamcast et al handle this/that game/effect? *DC tech retrospective *spawn

[Shifty Geezer]

It's interesting seeing VC has even worse framerate, so not obviously showing far better hardware utilisation.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Falls below 25 fps all the time on PS2. That's the truth.

We need to be more specific about what people say about framerate, otherwise we're getting into Political Campaign types of information manipulation, people picking best and worst measurements to drive their argument instead of looking for the information that explains reality.

I think we should set "95% of the time" as the framerate. What does GTA3 run at 95% of the time on DC and PS2 to compare framerates.

 

[Cloofoofoo]

That DF shows otherwise and actually proves that PS2 actually does a great job of sticking to 30fps in GTA3 with it spending most of the time between 28-30fps.

Some very brief drops to 25fps at one point but it was very brief.

And GTFO trying to use GTA:VC to prove PS2's performance for GTA3.

What are you talking about , obviously the first part is gta 3. Also the game doesn't stick to 30 fps. It literally jumps from 23/24 fps to 29 fps every other second. That's great performance? The description of the video even says the game on PS2 weren't known to have great performance.

Maybe you should gtfo ?

 

[davis.anthony]

It's interesting seeing VC has even worse framerate, so not obviously showing far better hardware utilisation.

As a quick comparison here's the Xbox version

 

[davis.anthony]

What are you talking about

I'm talking about YOU, starting the video and using the frame rate for Vice City, in a discussion about GTA3

Like Vice City has anything to do with how GTA3 performs.

Please explain why you did that?

It literally jumps from 23/24 fps to 29 fps every other second.

That is a gross exaggeration and is completely false, it never hits 23fps during gameplay so not sure what video you're even looking at.

And it only drops to 24fps once in the whole gameplay footage for literally 1 second, so I suggest you change your glasses and watch the footage again.

"It literally jumps from 23/24 fps to 29 fps every other second" - Laughable comment.

That's great performance?

It's actually much better than I expected for an early open world PS2 game.

Not to mention much better than Shenmue 2.

The description of the video even says the game on PS2 weren't known to have great performance.

That's subjective.

Maybe you should gtfo ?

You first, that is, after you've explained why you tried to use Vice City as a performance reference for GTA3.

 

[Cloofoofoo]

I'm talking about YOU, starting the video and using the frame rate for Vice City in a discussion about GTA3 like Vice City has anything to do with how GTA3 performs.

Please explain why you did that?



That is a gross exaggeration and is completely false, it never hits 23fps during gameplay so not sure what video you're even looking at.

And it only drops to 24fps once in the whole gameplay footage for literally 1 second, so I suggest you change your glasses and watch the footage again.

"It literally jumps from 23/24 fps to 29 fps every other second" - Laughable comment.



It's actually much better than I expected for an early open world PS2 game.

Not to mention much better than Shenmue 2.



That's subjective.



You first, that is, after you've explained why you tried to use Vice City as a performance reference for GTA3.

Iam not sure why your feelings are hurt over the use of that video? I am not bringing vice city into the chat , it's merely attached, if digital foundry has done a PS2 gta3 video only I would have used that but they didnt. Believe it or not I care very little for this series wether it's on DC or not. Also not that I care to explain to you but you seem quite hurt over it. It's very simple.

It didn't . Basically cruises 27 to 29 fps ,did dip as low as 25 fps for a sec( mind you the comments or stated he felt cutscenes were smoother!). Basically the commentator calling the PS2 version sluggish over and over and performance issues.

Have at it, I care not for shenmue 2 or 1 for that matter. Both are sluggish games with shit ton of loading times . Not favorites. It seems weird though you basically had to name drop shenmue like it was an insult or that it would matter to me , quite sad.

 

[Cloofoofoo]

We need to be more specific about what people say about framerate, otherwise we're getting into Political Campaign types of information manipulation, people picking best and worst measurements to drive their argument instead of looking for the information that explains reality.

I think we should set "95% of the time" as the framerate. What does GTA3 run at 95% of the time on DC and PS2 to compare framerates.

That's true. It would be an interesting test when this is all over. Maybe with enough interest digital foundry could do this test since they are equipped for this.

It's interesting seeing VC has even worse framerate, so not obviously showing far better hardware utilisation.

I dunno , I didn't watch that part of the video .

 

[davis.anthony]

Iam not sure why your feelings are hurt over the use of that video?

Calling out someone isn't the same as having hurt feelings.

I am not bringing vice city into the chat

You provided a video that was manually set to start at Vice City and you talked about Vice City's frame rate.

So you clearly did attempt to bring Vice City in to the chat, why?

Can you explain your thought process for why you thought linking a video with Vice City's performance has anything to do with how GTA3 runs?

, it's merely attached, if digital foundry has done a PS2 gta3 video only I would have used that but they didnt.

There was nothing stopping you from linking their video at the GTA3 section as it provided good performance numbers.

Believe it or not I care very little for this series wether it's on DC or not. Also not that I care to explain to you but you seem quite hurt over it. It's very simple.

My theory is this, you found the video and realised that GTA3 actually performs better than you thought it did, so thought to use GTA: Vice City instead as that performs in line with your original expectations of how you thought GTA3 ran.

It didn't . Basically cruises 27 to 29 fps ,did dip as low as 25 fps for a sec

So now you're going back on your original comment after it was called out.

( mind you the comments or stated he felt cutscenes were smoother!). Basically the commentator calling the PS2 version sluggish over and over and performance issues.

It's frame time issue is well known and is the primary reason the game feels sluggish.

Have at it, I care not for shenmue 2 or 1 for that matter. Both are sluggish games with shit ton of loading times . Not favorites. It seems weird though you basically had to name drop shenmue like it was an insult or that it would matter to me , quite sad.

So to sum it all up, you thought you were being clever trying to use Vice City's performance metrics, got called out for it, and decided to avoid explaining why and deflecting to saying 'feelings' are hurt instead.

I would (and maybe the others too??) would like some clarity as to why you tried to use Vice City.

Or are your feelings too hurt to explain (see what I did there)

 

[Cloofoofoo]

Calling out someone isn't the same as having hurt feelings.



You provided a video that was manually set to start at Vice City and you talked about Vice City's frame rate.

So you clear did attempt to bring Vice City in to the chat, why?

Can you explain your thought process for why you thought linking a video with Vice City's performance has anything to do with how GTA3 runs?



There was nothing stopping you from linking their video at the GTA3 section as it provided good performance numbers.



My theory is this, you found the video and realised that GTA3 actually performs better than you thought it did, so thought to use GTA: Vice City instead as that performs in line with your original expectations of how you thought GTA3 ran.



So now you're going back on your original comment after it was called out.



It's frame time issue is well known and is the primary reason the game feels sluggish.



So to sum it all up, you thought you were being clever trying to use Vice City's performance metrics, got called out for it, and decided to avoid explaining why and deflecting to saying 'feelings' are hurt instead.

You've become even less credible than you already were.

Well I already answered your question. I used the video only for the gta 3 metrics. I didn't even watch the other half so I care not wether it 1 fps or 100 fps because it isn't relevant. I wasn't even aware it performed horribly till shifty mentioned it.

You seem rabid and hellbent on "calling me out". When in actuality I didn't even care to look at vc. Again your feelings are hurt and I guess I am calling you on that because now you're just causing the topic to go off course.

GTA 3 video overall 23 fps to 30 fps. ( Especially in the cutscenes despite the guy calling it smooth while gameplay low performing and sluggish lol) Gameplay 27 fps to 30 fps( but basically hovering 27/28) . I can't make it any simpler than that . While your over there making crazy stories about who knows what.

Maybe you should cool off and like you told me , GTFO.

 

[davis.anthony]

Well I already answered your question. I used the video only for the gta 3 metrics.

You clearly didn't as what you described was completely different to what the video showed.

This is what you said - "Falls below 25 fps all the time on PS2"

If you had truly watched only the GTA3 metrics, you wouldn't have made such a silly and inaccurate comment.

I didn't even watch the other half so I care not wether it 1 fps or 100 fps because it isn't relevant.

You didn't watch the other half (The Vice City section) but yet somehow managed to summerise PS2's performance perfectly

"Falls below 25 fps all the time on PS2"

Not making much sense are you.

I wasn't even aware it performed horribly till shifty mentioned it.

See my above reply.

You seem rabid and hellbent on "calling me out". When in actuality I didn't even care to look at vc.

Again, see my above comment.

Again your feelings are hurt and I guess I am calling you on that because now you're just causing the topic to go off course.

That deflection tactic doesn't really work.

GTA 3 video overall 23 fps to 30 fps. ( Especially in the cutscenes despite the guy calling it smooth) Gameplay 27 fps to 30 fps( but basically hovering 27/28) . I can't make it any simpler than that . While your over there making crazy stories about who knows what.

So if you watched the GTA3 metrics as you claimed, why did you originally say it "Falls below 25 fps all the time on PS2" ??

Only to then contradict yourself in the above reply and make it seem like you didn't actually watch the GTA3 metrics.

It's almost as if you were describing Vice City's performance

So to summerise, you're incapable of watching a video and accurately summerising the performance metrics it shows. I'll remember that if ever you start talking about frame rate in any capacity again and ignore what you claim.

 

[Cloofoofoo]

You clearly didn't as what you described was completely different to what the video showed.

This is what you said - "Falls below 25 fps all the time on PS2"

If you had truly watched only the GTA3 metrics, you wouldn't have made such a silly and inaccurate comment.



You didn't watch the other half (The Vice City section) but yet somehow managed to summerise PS2's performance perfectly

"Falls below 25 fps all the time on PS2"

Not making much sense are you.



See my above reply.



Again, see my above comment.



That deflection tactic doesn't really work.



So if you watched the GTA3 metrics as you claimed, why did you originally say it "Falls below 25 fps all the time on PS2" ??

Only to then contradict yourself in the above reply and make it seem like you didn't actually watch the GTA3 metrics.

It's almost as if you were describing Vice City's performance

So to summerise, you're incapable of watching a video and accurately summerising the performance metrics it shows. I'll remember that if ever you start talking about frame rate in any capacity again.

I wouldn't know about vc nor care. The gt3 section literally ran 23 to 30 fps . Including cutscenes. That simple. So it did constantly fall below 25 fps. You for some reason felt the need to make it 2 distinct things gameplay/cutscenes. I don't. I guess we will have to agree to disagree on the metrics of it. I'll leave it at that simply this doesn't make any sense to keep going over something unrelated like vc or your feelings.

 

[function]

Google indicates that 8MB of the 32MB is reserved, leaving PSP with 24MB and thus more RAM (and better texture compression than PS2) than DC.

When you're talking about such small RAM amounts an extra 50% is a major upgrade.

That's a really dishonest representation of memory considerations.

I'm starting to think you're intentionally being dishonest.

 

[TapamN]

Google indicates that 8MB of the 32MB is reserved, leaving PSP with 24MB and thus more RAM (and better texture compression than PS2) than DC.

When you're talking about such small RAM amounts an extra 50% is a major upgrade.

"Google indicates." I told you that last month, after you were claiming PSP games could use 32MB of RAM over the DC's "16" MB (actually 26MB).

I'm starting to think you're intentionally being dishonest.

I've been leaning towards he's just trying to see how long he can get away with trolling.

 

[Nesh]

Except that video is bs. Here's digital foundry Real analysis of the actual frame rate. Falls below 25 fps all the time on PS2. That's the truth. Like I said we aren't doing too bad considering it's still early days and it hasn't hit the replacement of all the graphics code yet l.

For the purposes of the discussion, he shows a video of GTA3 which hits the desired framerate more often, whereas the 24-25fps performance is related to VC because it pushes the hardware more than GTA3 did as per DF commentary.

 

[Sonicfan]

That's true. It would be an interesting test when this is all over. Maybe with enough interest digital foundry could do this test since they are equipped for this.



I dunno , I didn't watch that part of the video .

I know DF is doing an interview with the devs asap, and i can't wait to watch!

 

[Sonicfan]

Well I already answered your question. I used the video only for the gta 3 metrics. I didn't even watch the other half so I care not wether it 1 fps or 100 fps because it isn't relevant. I wasn't even aware it performed horribly till shifty mentioned it.

You seem rabid and hellbent on "calling me out". When in actuality I didn't even care to look at vc. Again your feelings are hurt and I guess I am calling you on that because now you're just causing the topic to go off course.

GTA 3 video overall 23 fps to 30 fps. ( Especially in the cutscenes despite the guy calling it smooth while gameplay low performing and sluggish lol) Gameplay 27 fps to 30 fps( but basically hovering 27/28) . I can't make it any simpler than that . While your over there making crazy stories about who knows what.

Maybe you should cool off and like you told me , GTFO.

Yup, that's why I'm ignoring him. Guarantee it's just a fanboy mad that the game is running at all, lol.

 

[davis.anthony]

That's a really dishonest representation of memory considerations.

I'm starting to think you're intentionally being dishonest.

You are welcome to provide counter evidence.

But I see what you did there.

 

[davis.anthony]

"Google indicates." I told you that last month, after you were claiming PSP games could use 32MB of RAM over the DC's "16" MB (actually 26MB).

Funny, that you post you linked do doesn't show me saying that.

What I actually said is that PSP's 32MB vs 16MB system RAM is a huge advantage for PSP, which it is.

The developers porting GTA3 to DC would kill for some extra system RAM right now.

Try not to misquote people.

 

[Karamazov]

we have a great opportunity to see how an eventual port could have ended up, with passionnate people working hard on their free time.
As a tech forum we should rejoice and see how far they can go.
Once they're done, we'll begin proper comparisons and get to some conclusions.

 

[davis.anthony]

I hope it does get finished so I can play it, I would love for them to release two versions of the game, one for a stock DC with 16MB RAM and a version for a modded DC that has 32MB RAM.