Could Dreamcast et al handle this/that game/effect? *DC tech retrospective *spawn

[StefanHQ]

this esppiral, its one guy that sifts through values to see what turns on and off stuff . that seems more like radial blur. I remember some one( the person who did soul calibur 2 model demo on ninja) said that its pretty much copying/saving prior frame to use for a rtt , cost up to 16ms without increasing scene complexity. its probably the same here because i doubt very much they would like to render things twice for a seperate render texture or even have resources to do so.

I think you are correct in this. Makes sense.

 

[Cloofoofoo]

Btw, I wonder why they didn't implement the blur on DC. Maybe it couldn't keep adding as much?

Its very likely alot harder to maintain 60 fps with it on. I notice his video has a mouse cursor, thats probably emulator video. Ask him if has tried on real hw to see if the radial blur has any adverse effects on framerate. Also it was kind of to be expected, they didnt backport all the content from ps2 anyways. ( there was left overs like the bamboo forest cutscene from ps2 , models still on dc disc).

 

[Sonicfan]

Now i recall they also used motion blur on DOA 3 final boss fight....and was annoying as fuck! hahahahaah

Yep, it was the same case, but they made it even worse with the silly camera angle

 

[Sonicfan]

Its very likely alot harder to maintain 60 fps with it on. I notice his video has a mouse cursor, thats probably emulator video. Ask him if has tried on real hw to see if the radial blur has any adverse effects on framerate. Also it was kind of to be expected, they didnt backport all the content from ps2 anyways. ( there was left overs like the bamboo forest cutscene from ps2 , models still on dc disc).

Yeah, maybe it's the emulator factor. I do recall a preview of the game where they did it on DC and it was going slow-motion. Maybe they could have done it at 30fps instead. I'm sure that wouldn't add too much delay

 

[StefanHQ]

Its very likely alot harder to maintain 60 fps with it on. I notice his video has a mouse cursor, thats probably emulator video. Ask him if has tried on real hw to see if the radial blur has any adverse effects on framerate. Also it was kind of to be expected, they didnt backport all the content from ps2 anyways. ( there was left overs like the bamboo forest cutscene from ps2 , models still on dc disc).

Yeah I just annoyingly keep saying "fillrate" and I go by the "if it walks and sound like a duck... it is a duck!" reasoning. If DC really could do all those frambuffer effects, bumpmap etc without any performance issues. It would have been used. Simple as that. Then one can always say "but this game had... and that game had..." yes but then it was in special case scenarios / or the game droppen in frame rate etc.

The simple truth is: Doing anything that takes seriously filling toll (and especially if its render to texture stuff) will eat up a lot of the alreadt quite restricted fill rate that the DC have.

 

[Cloofoofoo]

Yeah I just annoyingly keep saying "fillrate" and I go by the "if it walks and sound like a duck... it is a duck!" reasoning. If DC really could do all those frambuffer effects, bumpmap etc without any performance issues. It would have been used. Simple as that. Then one can always say "but this game had... and that game had..." yes but then it was in special case scenarios / or the game droppen in frame rate etc.

The simple truth is: Doing anything that takes seriously filling toll (and especially if its render to texture stuff) will eat up a lot of the alreadt quite restricted fill rate that the DC have.

well , i cant say i 100% agree with that. It sure does hit harder than other systems but its not useless if you only do like 1 post proccess effect at a time. The guy who did the soul calibur 2 dc thing did a prior test before that and told me of his test :layering. radial blur and bloom on vs just radial blur on. Each effect using 2 quad full screen covering quads ( 4 total) . Using the render texture method that makes takes prior frame to avoid doublle amount of vertices overhead. the scene is like 15k triangs/26k vertices cel shaded model.

interesting results , so bloom + radial blur is pretty much 2x rendering time cost than just radial blur. Just radial blur seems to be minimal amount of impact in the render time. If anything the biggest impact iam guessing in the cpus tnl time( i am guessing thats in the main time) or its that 16ms cost for the fb copy which seems to knock it to the 30 fps. on pvr2 side alone it looks with radial it should have been hitting 60 fps. I think its not dire at all and its perfectly usable provided youre aiming for 30 fps not 60. Who knows maybe on real hw is why doa2 avoids it during gameplay (just cutscens) since it strives for 60 fps?

dc test:
radial blur + bloom

just radial blur:

 

[Sonicfan]

@clthe same guy pointed out that vf4 pachinko is what vf4 would have looked like on DC, and it's amazing to see!

 

[Sonicfan]

 

[Sonicfan]

Only thing i think they'd add is speculars to the leather materials, kind of like force 5

 

[xaeroxcore]

@clthe same guy pointed out that vf4 pachinko is what vf4 would have looked like on DC, and it's amazing to see!

Where did you get that info? I mean if VF 4 Pachinko runs on Naomi or Atomiswave, totally true....

 

[Sonicfan]

Where did you get that info? I mean if VF 4 Pachinko runs on Naomi or Atomiswave, totally true....

It wasn't a confirmation, but more of an opinion. He points out the lighting differences, the textures, and poly counts. I wouldn't be surprised if this was running on something DC related. I've read DC regulation 7. It definitely has the PVR aesthetic.

 

[Sonicfan]

Was on discord when someone pointed out the vf4 pachinko graphics are most likely what it would look like on DC, and i fully agree. Except maybe they'd use specular highlights on the surfaces, kind of like they did in force 5 or the mods shown in doa2le

 

[Sonicfan]

 

[xaeroxcore]

It wasn't a confirmation, but more of an opinion. He points out the lighting differences, the textures, and poly counts. I wouldn't be surprised if this was running on something DC related. I've read DC regulation 7. It definitely has the PVR aesthetic.

I see..Where can we get more videos or images of VF 4 Pachinko? Looks very interesting! May be somebody knows in which hardware it ran...Obviously would be a waste of money to run VF 4 pachinko on Naomi 2, so totally makes sense they used regular Naomi or even better a DC. What our DC tech experts think? @Cloofoofoo @Nesh @StefanHQ According to the images, i see it possible to run on DC....

By the way, you guys saw what @EsppiraK made with DOA 2LE DC? This remaster looks great an its available to test! Is amazing that he managed to improve one of DC´s already most complex and demanding games!

 

[Sonicfan]

I see..Where can we get more videos or images of VF 4 Pachinko? Looks very interesting! May be somebody knows in which hardware it ran...Obviously would be a waste of money to run VF 4 pachinko on Naomi 2, so totally makes sense they used regular Naomi or even better a DC. What our DC tech experts think? @Cloofoofoo @Nesh @StefanHQ According to the images, i see it possible to run on DC....

By the way, you guys saw what @EsppiraK made with DOA 2LE DC? This remaster looks great an its available to test! Is amazing that he managed to improve one of DC´s already most complex and demanding games!

There's lots of footage of it on youtube, but it's mostly from the yakuza 4 arcade. I saw one filmed off camera, but it was very low res. I'll grab some links and show ya!

 

[Sonicfan]

 

[Sonicfan]

 

[Sonicfan]

 

[Cloofoofoo]

Someone is modding dead or alive 2 with stages from soul calibur 2, 3 and psp along with other games including doa dimensions. They seem to run fine. It's interesting because doa2 characters are on the higher end of spectrum polycount wise for that generation for fighting games( soul calibur 2 and Virtua fighter 4 , tekken tag are lower, on par with sc3

 

[Sonicfan]

Yup, this shows how well optimized the doa engine was for DC. I could legit see soul calibur 2 looking similar to that first pic. I want to live in that reality