Bittorrent Analysis - Suprnova Shutdown
- Thread starter Unknown Soldier
- Start date
For me, P2P hasn't stopped me from buying more CDs. It's stopped me from buying the mega-artist CDs. I have access to all of these unsigned bands and artists now that I would've never had access to before and I like the music from the small artists much better than the pop bullshit that was shoved down everyone's throat since the beginning of music corporations.
Now people are hearing different kinds of music and are less likely to buy the watered down stuff. I know that The stuff I buy is now from people selling albums out of their garage's and not from stores.
I bet that if a study was done on the relationship between P2P use and the ratio between purchasing albums from Gold+ selling artists compared to low selling artists the study would show the same thing.
The funny thing is that the number of albums sold has been less by the big corporations, but they released much less albums compared to previous years. The number of units sold per album released as actually gone up since the advent of P2P.
Now people are hearing different kinds of music and are less likely to buy the watered down stuff. I know that The stuff I buy is now from people selling albums out of their garage's and not from stores.
I bet that if a study was done on the relationship between P2P use and the ratio between purchasing albums from Gold+ selling artists compared to low selling artists the study would show the same thing.
The funny thing is that the number of albums sold has been less by the big corporations, but they released much less albums compared to previous years. The number of units sold per album released as actually gone up since the advent of P2P.
Bouncing Zabaglione Bros.
Legend
You can guarentee that after this latest round of shutdowns, there will be no difference to sales. The record and movie companies will simply refuse to analyse their own business practices and will continue to insist failures like the half-a-billion they spent making and marketing films like "Polar Express" (with great decisions like launching against "The Incredibles") are down to pirating.
Bouncing Zabaglione Bros. said:
i see p2p as some sort od preview for movies....
those i like, i go to see in cinema.
those i dont like..i skip....
those hyped up 10-15 secs of of commercial for each movie isnt what the real thing is. never was. so if i DL movie and see it pile of horse shit and i decide not to buy it.....fuck the studios.
before p2p thee was no alternative.....you had to "believe" commercials....
now you can get taste of what it is before u spend u cash for them.
and if its piece of shit....i DO NOT go watch it.
simple.
they can whine as much as they like....but after my experience with DLing movies and previews on my comp, i know this --> if its worthy, i'll pay the ticket and watch it in full screen and sound.....no comp can compere to cinenema....
but if its POS?......fuck them.....i stay home and browse beyond3d
KeillRandor
Newcomer
Guden Oden said:
This reminds me of an interview I read somewhere (where?) with the head of the consumer electronics side of Sony, who kinda said that the music/film side can do what they want, but since it's the electronics that brings in the cash, the music side of the company WILL lose the war, and will have to toe the line at some point in the future.
KeillRandor
Newcomer
KeillRandor said:
Ok - I admit I was wrong - (my memory isn't that good - (thats my excuse and I'm sticking with it)) - the guy in question was a senior VP at Sony - Keiji Kimura. And the article in question is here:
http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/11.02/sony.html
I know it's getting on for being a year old - but it's still relevant...
Keill Randor,
a.k.a. Darren Tomlyn
Tune-writer and Fiddle-player
RussSchultz said:
That place is LEGAL, dear Russ.
If you don't know something, feel free to ask first.
FYI: they have their own laws and that site is fully comply to those laws.
Perhaps you find it suprising but true: last time I've checked United States ends at the ocean, my friend - on this side, of both big water.
Summa summarum: if I buy something over the internet, that's completely legal. On the other end, the seller?
Well, as of now allofmp3 pays royalty for the Russian authorities therefore fully legal:
Russian copyright legislation allows phonograms to be performed publicly without the authorization of the copyright owner for broadcasting and cable transmission. (Article 39) The Internet could be deemed to fall under this exemption. The copyrights involved have to be paid to a collecting society.
Allofmp3 has signed agreements for this with Russian Organization for Multimedia & Digital Systems (ROMS). According to license № ЛС-ЗМ-02-36 the Internet-project www.allofmp3.com, has the right to use musical compositions by providing downloads. Under the license agreement Allofmp3 pays out fees to ROMS for downloaded materials that are subject to the Russian Federation Copyright And Related Rights Law.
ROMS is a member of CISAC (www.cisac.org) - the International confederation of authors and composers societies. ROMS manages intellectual rights in the Russian Federation. All third party distributors licensed by ROMS are required to pay a portion of the revenue to the ROMS. ROMS in turn, is obligated to pay most of that money (aside from small portion it needs for operating expenses) to artists. Both Russian and foreign.
Moreover, dear Russ, here is an interview with allofmp3:
http://www.museekster.com/allofmp3interview.htm
Here is another with ROM: http://www.museekster.com/romsinterview.htm
And finally here is the press release of ROM: http://www.museekster.com/files/press-release ROMS.doc
Source: http://www.museekster.com/allofmp3faq.htm
PS: as I have said, it's better to ask first, instead of assuming, Russ.
It may be legal in Russia, but it isn't quite legal in the US, dear T2k.
Nor do they use completely legal source material--some of their cuts are from promotional discs (not for resale, clearly marked on the album art), dear T2k.
Basically, they exist due to very gray areas in international copyright law, and creative classification of what they do ("rebroadcasting").
As for you, its better to understand than to trumpet the PR material of the company and people who want it to be legal.
Nor do they use completely legal source material--some of their cuts are from promotional discs (not for resale, clearly marked on the album art), dear T2k.
Basically, they exist due to very gray areas in international copyright law, and creative classification of what they do ("rebroadcasting").
As for you, its better to understand than to trumpet the PR material of the company and people who want it to be legal.
RussSchultz said:
Did you miss the point, dear Russ? It would be good if you would take off your imperial glasses, fella: US is only ONE fuckin country oin this planet and US' laws doesn't worth a flying sh*t outside of US.
There is no such thing that a foreign company illegal by US laws - it's NONSENSE, dear RUss. The ROM is a member of the international association and legally represents Russia and all the artists in Russia, collecting the royalties etc. Allofmp3 pays these royalties for ROM in Russia - which sends this to the artists.
Compared your cry about US laws to this legal, internationally backed system is quite funny, I have to tell you.
LOL, you don't know too much about these things, right, Russ? Any US music shop sells 'not for resale' stamped material. It's NOT illegal. It's NOT a crime. You are WRONG.It's a typical example of our "common stupidity" in the US: it exists almost everywhere,: peeps like you think the only legal way to do anything is the US way.
Ignorant, arrogant, national stupidity. Classic example.
Instead of spreading your completely false BS, it'd be better if you would take yourself to the nearest library and start reading on relative laws.
You may will iunderstand that US laws are exceptionally stupid in this field,, none of them serving the actual creator, the artists but only the recording industry.
People like you - ignorant, information-resistant outsiders - may can de feed up with PR propaganda by Valenti and Co but that doesn't mean you know anything.
It's legal and buying IS LEGAL, unless you ban EVERYTHING which not sold under American flag.
PS: JEsus... I feel like arguing with some isolationist about entering the war... utterly stupid debate. I quit here: I have nothing to say when somebody wants to see US laws to be uphold in other countries.
This is today's Bush doctrine, the essence of the uber-stupidity in foreign relations.
Well, somebody pissed in your cheerios, now didn't they? I'm glad you're open to such reasoned debate, dear T2k.
Tell me, little one (do you like those patronizing terms of endearment? I didn't think so),when AllofMp3 "sells" a track to me in the US, do they sell it in Russia? Or in the buying country? Or in any country in between?
Plus, it seems to me you have a little bit of penis envy going on with your constant harping on the US only being one country in the world.
And please, can it with the patronizing "dear such and such". Little man.
It would be good to take off your twit glasses, as signators of the Bern convention are bound to respect international copyright laws.
If its doing business in the US, it sure as hell is.
Tell me, little one (do you like those patronizing terms of endearment? I didn't think so),when AllofMp3 "sells" a track to me in the US, do they sell it in Russia? Or in the buying country? Or in any country in between?
Next, stop referring to ROMS as an "international backed system". The RIAA is a ton more internationally backed than the "russian organization for multimedia and digital systems." Matter of fact, then only time you seem ROMS mentioned in in a discussion over AllofMp3.
How the hell can they sell the Beatles, and be legitimate? Apple Music hasn't sold the online distribution rights to anyone--anywhere. Furthermore, I've seen more than one post by artists who's material is "for sale" on AllofMp3, who hasn't signed over their copyright authorization to anybody in Russia, nor is receiving any monies from the "sales"--meaning AllofMp3 is violating their copyright.
It's so funny to see somebody so pompous be so wrong. The copyright holder retains control over his/her own work. If it is released "not for resale", then it plainly is "not for resale", and doing such is infringing on the holder's copyright.
No, you dipshit, it's international law. The Bern Convention on copyright is the overriding law on all of this. And strangely, Russia is a signator. As is the US, and just about every other nation out there.
Ignorant, arrogant, personal stupidity. Classic example.
Plus, it seems to me you have a little bit of penis envy going on with your constant harping on the US only being one country in the world.
I suggest the same for you. Read the Bern Convention, for starters. It might be a bit of an eye opener. Unless, of course, you would like to assert that Russian copyright laws trump the world's. But that would be ignorant, arrogant, national stupidity, now wouldn't it?
And please, can it with the patronizing "dear such and such". Little man.
RussSchultz said:
LOL, that was my point, fella: they do respect the international laws. If they wouldn't, the int'l assoc would have been expelled them.
Feel free to read on the subject, dear Russ.
Since when Moscow located in US soil?
No, it's NOT doing ANY business here.
Tehy SELL it in Russia, over the internet.
You know, my ignorant fella, the internet is NOT US TERRITORY.
I know it's hard to imagine for such blind peeps like you but yes, there is life out there, outside of US and internet is NOT US.
Next, stop referring to ROMS as an "international backed system". The RIAA is a ton more internationally backed than the "russian organization for multimedia and digital systems." Matter of fact, then only time you seem ROMS mentioned in in a discussion over AllofMp3.
Well, you apparently don't even know WTF are you tlaking about...
How the hell can they sell the Beatles, and be legitimate? Apple Music hasn't sold the online distribution rights to anyone--anywhere.
If you want, you can find how the int'l rights management work, little Russ.
Do your homework, I'm not going to do that instead of you.
OK, now I undertsand: you don't know sht about how is this whole stuff works around the globe.
DO you think if Beatles sold legally in Equatorial Guinea, that means they signed an authorization for that partical country?
You are completely clueless, RUss. Go and talk to somebody who works for some bigger label, publisher. Stop being a clown here.
Blablabla. BTW I noticed no answer on my note about how retarded peeps cannot imagine that business and way of life can be conducted other than US-like way...
I wonder why you can't say anything about that... LOL.Penis envy? ABout what?
I just hate the idiots who think the only way is regulate everybody to the face of this country. I'm actually disgusted by these peeps.
LIsten, as I said: I have nobody here to argue with. You obviously suffers from the classic narrow minded thinking, so I suggest you think about one question: why nobody, NOBODY sued them? Why even the int'l ass says there's no reason to sue them, no legal base?
Perhaps, being a lawyer of this int'l assoc, he knows a little bit more about these things than you do, dear little Russ.
OFF
TIme by time I'm amazed how typical person you're here, in America, for a lot of average, narrow minded people. And every time I feel sorry for you and I feel happy myself that your type is fortunately is the minority here.
People like you - 'a Russian company is illegal by US laws! Stop it!' ROTFL... - dosn't really spark anything, and as the life proves it every day, your type is still minority. PS: A thought for chewing after you answered my last question: a friend told me you cna start an mp3-selling company with buying all the CDs and they'll become the asset of the company. After this you start selling your 'shares' for people who, becoming a shareholder, entitled to use the company's asset...
You see, dear Russ, it's not that easy. Despite the fact we got this ridiculous DCMA etc we still have good chances to eliminate the unnecessary predators from the food chain, the publishers, these MPAA's Jack Valenti-like infestant worms, parasites, who wanted to stop the VHS/home video back then, now the DVDs, everything. Die, die die, all of them. Go and learn something other than how to screw your artists as well as your customer, that's my message for all these bloodsuckers.
PS2: a little help, RUss. What you don't get is that there are outrageous lies and there are reality, corruption and backdoor deals and monopolies at RIAA. And I hate them. All of them. Anytime an artist releases mp3s in his own publishing, I always buy them. You know why? Because that way I may prove them there is a way without feeding those parasites.
Um, no. Try reading the thread just a little bit. Not to be offensive, but it helps to have the facts.fallguy said:
T2k:
Its apparent you've re-entered Troll2000 mode.
Look, if you can't discuss things rationally without being a total prick about it--particularly when you're just pulling stuff out of your behind--don't bother engaging me in discussion.
You obviously lack some of the gross points, never mind the finer points, of international copyright law. Becoming abusive doesn't change that--it just makes you look like a 12 year old with a potty mouth.
No matter how much you want things the way you want them, insulting people won't make it happen. You might "win" the argument when they realize you're just a prick and stop the discussion, but you'll still be wrong.
Its apparent you've re-entered Troll2000 mode.
Look, if you can't discuss things rationally without being a total prick about it--particularly when you're just pulling stuff out of your behind--don't bother engaging me in discussion.
You obviously lack some of the gross points, never mind the finer points, of international copyright law. Becoming abusive doesn't change that--it just makes you look like a 12 year old with a potty mouth.
No matter how much you want things the way you want them, insulting people won't make it happen. You might "win" the argument when they realize you're just a prick and stop the discussion, but you'll still be wrong.
digitalwanderer
Legend
<sigh>
I interrupt this flamefest to briefly mention that I am still missing Suprnova.
I didn't use it much anymore since the seed/leech ratio was usually so crappy, but I sure do miss checking it a couple of times a day to see what the what is.
</sigh>
I interrupt this flamefest to briefly mention that I am still missing Suprnova.
I didn't use it much anymore since the seed/leech ratio was usually so crappy, but I sure do miss checking it a couple of times a day to see what the what is.
</sigh>
digitalwanderer
Legend
I know and I probably regularly visit most of the ones you're thinking of....but Suprnova they ain't.silence said:
Suprnova was the main gathering site from all the other sites I cruise, when something came out you almost always saw it on Suprnova just as soon as it went up anywhere.
I like reactor a lot as a Suprnova substitute (name shortened and changed to avoid moderation, but y'know where I mean!
) but it just isn't quite the same for me. i got few bookmarked, but....no links....
there is even one that is supposed to be supernova mirrorr.
and yes, i feel it was idiotic to go for sites like that, now BT will be forced to advance into something like dc++ or something.....
and since i know how much i like BT, i still consider them as best DL things around.
worst thing is, not all torrent were illegal. now they will force devs to make new ways of gathering info..... those idiots will never learn.....
oh well...
there is even one that is supposed to be supernova mirrorr.
and yes, i feel it was idiotic to go for sites like that, now BT will be forced to advance into something like dc++ or something.....
and since i know how much i like BT, i still consider them as best DL things around.
worst thing is, not all torrent were illegal. now they will force devs to make new ways of gathering info..... those idiots will never learn.....
oh well...
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