AMD RV770 refresh -> RV790

[trinibwoy]

You guys see this?

http://vr-zone.com/articles/nvidia-plans-geforce-gtx-275-against-radeon-hd-4890/6719.html?doc=6719

CJ told us that GeForce GTX 275 is gunning for US$229-$279 price range which competes directly against the Radeon HD 4890 card at similar price point. One possible configuration of the card could be 216 SPs, 512-bit memory interface and higher clocks than GTX 260. Another less possible config could be 240 SPs with 448-bit memory interface.

What's the point of such a card if there's a very good possibility that HD4890 is faster than GTX 280?

 

[Jawed]

Yeah, wouldn't it be easier to just drop the price on GTX285, its best price is about $350 right now.

Do partners really want a SKU between GTX260 and GTX285?

Benchmark edition?

Jawed

 

[CJ]

Maybe they're trying to phase out GTX260 in favor of GTX275. Their lineup would look nicer that way:

GTX 275 -> GTX 285 -> GTX 295

Another config I heard was that it's basically a GTX260 Core 216 at GTX285 speeds (except for memory which runs at around 1.1Ghz).

 

[trinibwoy]

In that case, please allow me to introduce you to the GTX 275:

http://www.evga.com/products/pdf/896-P3-1258.pdf

 

[homerdog]

Yeah, wouldn't it be easier to just drop the price on GTX285, its best price is about $350 right now.

Do partners really want a SKU between GTX260 and GTX285?

Benchmark edition?

Jawed

If yields have improved to the point where they can enable another TPC or increase clocks it makes sense, no? Assuming it's truly a free lunch...

I like the higher clocks or 240 SPs 448bit theories.

 

[rjc]

So April 6th is wrong?

The chiphell admin said press and nda's expire April 8 USA time. Or April 9 China time.

What the (chip)hell does that wanna say?

Sorry that did not translate well, trying not to give a wrong meaning - 3) about the RV740 without a power connector and 4) failure of "clients"(ie AMD and NV) to get 40nm performance chip working both have something to do with excessive leakage. There is a second sentence mentioning AMD and the number 580 the rest of which i cannot make out.

larger die area with a 6 and 8 pin connector.

The RV790 chip itself has more pins(ie will need to rework the RV770 boards). Thread speculates what the extra pins purpose is for. The chiphell admin claims to know but cannot reveal. Others say just extra power pins to reach the higher clocks.

GTX 275 -> GTX 285 -> GTX 295

Just for reference, its questionable if the GTX295 is still actually in nvidia's line up. They produced a bunch of cards(maybe 10 thousand or so) at the start, but only appear to be making token amounts now. Lack of availability seems to be maintaining the price somewhat though. ie techreport and anandtech forum(see post by zap who works for bfg on start of second page).

 

[ChrisRay]

According to "ZAP" in that thread. Who works for BFG. The cards are selling extremely well. But the allocation seems to be a little to be desired because Nvidia is unable to produce them fast enough to meet demand.

http://forums.anandtech.com/message...ORDFRM=&STARTPAGE=2&FTVAR_FORUMVIEWTMP=Linear

So its not a limited edition card. Either Nvidia can't make enough to meet demand ((which seems likely)) likely due to complexity of the hardware and Nvidia's lack of expectation or demand. Reading his comments actually make alot of sense.

 

[mczak]

If yields have improved to the point where they can enable another TPC or increase clocks it makes sense, no? Assuming it's truly a free lunch...

I like the higher clocks or 240 SPs 448bit theories.

Yes, sounds plausible. There aren't really that many options for a card between GTX 260 core 216 and GTX 285, basically combination of 3 options, higher clocks, 240SP, 512bit mem. Out of these, I'd think 512bit memory is the least likely (not sure of the costs, but unlike the other options it can't come for free), same reason I'd rule out higher clocked ram (unless nvidia does a benchmark edition), plus the GTX 260 doesn't really look that memory bandwidth limited to begin with so performance gains possibly minimal.
Higher core/shader clocks sound very likely, I bet pretty much any gt200b chip can reach clocks somewhere between GTX 280 and 285 so would come for free. Dunno about 240 SPs though, if that's a replacement for GTX 260 it would leave nvidia without any SKU with disabled units.

 

[homerdog]

Hardware-Infos seems to think it's just a clock increase, 648/1476/1107MHz.
http://www.hardware-infos.com/news.php?news=2801&sprache=1

 

[Rangers]

So around 15% faster to combat 15% faster RV790. And they end up the same performance. Sigh.

Nvidia sure is aggressive, while AMD always seems slow footed..

Just wish Nvidia would get some more well rounded clocks, if that makes any sense 647/617/523/etc etc lol.

 

[seahawk]

In the ned the clockspeed of the Shader ALUs is what counts on G200.

 

[Shtal]

Hardware-Infos on Geforce GTX 275 vs. Radeon HD 4890

It is funny how Nvidia shrink the gap between GTX260 to GTX280 & GTX285.

First GTX260-192, Second GTX260-216: now over-clocked GTX260-216 "aka GTX275" roughly equal to GTX280 but slightly slower then GTX285.

Nvidia probably know how ATI RV790 will perform - since they have an answer to unreleased RV790.


RV770 (160 *5D) = 800 streams vs. RV790 (192 *5D) = 960 streams [differentness 32 *5D = 160] and RV770 40TMU's vs. RV790 48TMU's [differentness 8TMU's]

RV770Pro (128 *5D) = 640 streams vs. RV770XT (160 *5D) = 800 streams [differentness 32 *5D = 160] and RV770Pro 32TMU's vs. RV770XT 40TMU's [differentness 8TMU's]


Clock for Clock RV770XT vs. RV790XT should perform same clock for clock RV770Pro vs. RV770XT.

ATI could also release super clock RV790XT like ~900MHz GPU.
http://www.hardware-infos.com/news.php?news=2801&sprache=1

 

[Razor1]

So around 15% faster to combat 15% faster RV790. And they end up the same performance. Sigh.

Nvidia sure is aggressive, while AMD always seems slow footed..

Just wish Nvidia would get some more well rounded clocks, if that makes any sense 647/617/523/etc etc lol.

its not slow footed, the rumors of the extra sp's is just not justified, for AMD to make a new chip just for a couple of months is kinda ridiculous.

 

[Jawed]

its not slow footed, the rumors of the extra sp's is just not justified, for AMD to make a new chip just for a couple of months is kinda ridiculous.

I don't disagree but it also seems pretty strange that this thing wasn't available months ago.

AMD knows that NVidia likes to do a pre-Christmas refresh (and there have been some ATI parts in the same ilk) yet had zilch ready or even nearly ready.

Either something's gone badly wrong or the concept of building "smaller" GPUs is just not being executed very well after the glory of RV770/30/10.

Jawed

 

[Razor1]

I see what your saying, but unless AMD is going to keep thier other SKU's untouched a month from now there really is no need for a new chip, Windows 7 is slated for June launch, as with Dx11, next gen chips are coming very soon, unless AMD is going to back log their inventory for another few months, I don't see a new chip in the short term.

 

[Rangers]

I don't disagree but it also seems pretty strange that this thing wasn't available months ago.

AMD knows that NVidia likes to do a pre-Christmas refresh (and there have been some ATI parts in the same ilk) yet had zilch ready or even nearly ready.

Either something's gone badly wrong or the concept of building "smaller" GPUs is just not being executed very well after the glory of RV770/30/10.

Jawed

Yup, AMD appears late (if only by a few months) compared to the Nvidia refresh.

It isn't a massive goof up or anything but it just seems tiresome that ATI is always behind, even if by a week!

 

[Jawed]

I see what your saying, but unless AMD is going to keep thier other SKU's untouched a month from now

How's this for a line-up when RV790 launches:

$130 RV740XT-1GB
$150 HD4870-512MB
$180 HD4870-1GB
$200 HD4890-512MB
$250 HD4890-1GB OC

RV770 will be EOL and HD4890s will fall in price over the summer. The lack of room for HD4850 looks ominous.

I'd say that AMD's pricing and range has collapsed because RV790 is late. Months late.

there really is no need for a new chip, Windows 7 is slated for June launch,

I think you're confusing the completion of coding with the launch date.

as with Dx11, next gen chips are coming very soon, unless AMD is going to back log their inventory for another few months, I don't see a new chip in the short term.

Unless AMD's plan was for RV790 to have launched in the November-January timeframe.

One thing I don't get is why has NVidia supposedly only just notified partners of GTX275. AMD's documentation to board partners was sent in February, according to Tridam's post (not sure at what time in February). So why has NVidia taken a while to respond?

Has AMD sent a new update and it's that that's caused NVidia to respond?

Or has NVidia done this solely because a price-gap has opened up between GTX260 and GTX285. A pretty huge price gap, practically double, i.e. $180 - $330 (admittedly exceptionally low prices right now, but prolly reasonable at the time of RV790's launch).

Jawed

 

[Razor1]

How's this for a line-up when RV790 launches:

$130 RV740XT-1GB
$150 HD4870-512MB
$180 HD4870-1GB
$200 HD4890-512MB
$250 HD4890-1GB OC

RV770 will be EOL and HD4890s will fall in price over the summer. The lack of room for HD4850 looks ominous.

I'd say that AMD's pricing and range has collapsed because RV790 is late. Months late.


I think you're confusing the completion of coding with the launch date.


Unless AMD's plan was for RV790 to have launched in the November-January timeframe.

One thing I don't get is why has NVidia supposedly only just notified partners of GTX275. AMD's documentation to board partners was sent in February, according to Tridam's post (not sure at what time in February). So why has NVidia taken a while to respond?

Has AMD sent a new update and it's that that's caused NVidia to respond?

Or has NVidia done this solely because a price-gap has opened up between GTX260 and GTX285. A pretty huge price gap, practically double, i.e. $180 - $330 (admittedly exceptionally low prices right now, but prolly reasonable at the time of RV790's launch).

Jawed

The thing is the gtx 285 and current 260 boards are 2 different spins, thats why the 260 boards didn't have much power savings over the older 260 boards (192 sps), I don't see nV reacting to the rv790, at least on their top 2 sku's. I'm pretty sure an upclocked rv 770, the code name could have changed but its the same chip, possibly another spin thats it.

Windows 7 was always slated for June, release candidated for Windows 7 is already slated for this month or next month.

 

[Jawed]

The thing is the gtx 285 and current 260 boards are 2 different spins, thats why the 260 boards didn't have much power savings over the older 260 boards (192 sps),

So the 55nm GT200bs are currently reserved for GTX285 and GTX295? So GTX275 will be the first SKU below GTX285 with 55nm GT200b?

Jawed

 

[AnarchX]

So the 55nm GT200bs are currently reserved for GTX285 and GTX295? So GTX275 will be the first SKU below GTX285 with 55nm GT200b?

No, first 55nm GTX 260 used B2 revision, while GTX 295/285 were launched with B3 dies. But the newest and custom designed GTX 260 also use B3 dies.

And even with a B2 die you can reach some nice power savings.

I would say B3 only offer a better yield to NV, so they did this third revision on 55nm.

btw.
It seems that NV is going to steal some HD4890 sales in advance - with $169-179 GTX260-216.