A damn good point made by Maddox

[K.I.L.E.R]

http://maddox.xmission.com/c.cgi?u=walmart

Does this guy make a good point or what?

 

[jvd]

http://maddox.xmission.com/c.cgi?u=walmart

Does this guy make a good point or what?

No.

They should not be able to work here period. If they find a way to illegal work and are reciving low pay they should not complain. When the usa finds out they should sue walmart and the illegal employess and then uses that to create more jobs for americans. Not that people with no rights in this country suddenly sue walmart for allowing them to work when they shouldn't be able to work .

 

[K.I.L.E.R]

Legal immigrants coming here permamently and getting jobs should be allowed though.

 

[ByteMe]

Idealy, everyone could immigrate that wanted to (minus the bad people).

 

[pax]

Its an increasing guilded cage syndrome. If we want to avoid such huge illegal immigration then we better start working towards fair trade, for one, so that these people wont want to move here just so they can find work.

 

[K.I.L.E.R]

People move to western countries like Australia and America just for work?

Can you explain ho fair trade can help?

 

[pax]

Def killer I hope your being sarcastic hhe... even low wage jobs here pay a lot more then average jobs overseas. Fair trade in the form of world standards of employment... most of the world has no effective minimum. So many if not most jobs in the third world pay too little to keep many workers interested in wanting to keep on living there. Of course the neo cons will be against any minimums... not matter how absurdly low the minimum is.

Its not a complete answer but modest jobs in Mexico would dissuade some people from coming here.

But to do that we'd have to stop vetoing the UN and blocking its attempts at creating enough law and order on the planet thru social engineering in order to stop the mass migration that has taken root and which grows stronger every year...

 

[K.I.L.E.R]

Then why don't people stop vetoing then?

Politics = Confusing.

 

[pax]

Because such idealistic causes run afoul of business and national politics.

 

[K.I.L.E.R]

Because such idealistic causes run afoul of business and national politics.

Sorry to sound like a child but why do they run afoul?

 

[ByteMe]

Has the UN tried to make a world-wide min. wage? Not a bad idea, you would have to make it somewhat adjustable.

Or would that be something better for the WTO?

 

[Humus]

Existing trade barriers towards third world countries needs to be removed. Of course, many politicians, left and right, are afraid of the consequences of doing that, cause jobs will move out of the country in larger degrees since it will be cheaper to put facilities where the labor costs are low. Long term, that's not a problem though, cause the third world would sooner or later reach comparable standards.

A good start on the EU side would be to remove the frigging stupid export support on agriculture products. The effect of it is that african farmers can't compete since the EU pays the farmer the difference between EU and african prices on agriculture products. So we're paying taxmoney to destroy the african agriculture.

 

[London Geezer]

World economy is full of really weird paradoxes. Poor countries are charged in order for rich countries to stay rich but at the same time putting poor countries in worse and worse situations.

It's a big headache, and solving this will take decades, since i don't see the USA and Europe moving from this line of thought anytime soon.

 

[jvd]

Legal immigrants coming here permamently and getting jobs should be allowed though.

Yes but that is not what we are talking about and if an legal immirgrant does not know they aren't making minimum wage then they really need help.

Learning english to live and be a part of this counrty is required. My fathre and his family lived in italy till he was 16. They all came here (he was the second youngest) they all know english except my grandma but even she can understand what you are saying in english she just can't respond in english. There were no tvs in italian or drivers tests in italian

 

[London Geezer]

Legal immigrants coming here permamently and getting jobs should be allowed though.

Yes but that is not what we are talking about and if an legal immirgrant does not know they aren't making minimum wage then they really need help.

Learning english to live and be a part of this counrty is required. My fathre and his family lived in italy till he was 16. They all came here (he was the second youngest) they all know english except my grandma but even she can understand what you are saying in english she just can't respond in english. There were no tvs in italian or drivers tests in italian

Oh that's why u can't speak properly HAHAHA KIDDING!!!!
That's curious, i came here when i was 18 from Italy and look at me now, i'm on a respectable wage working for the world leading medical assistance and insurance company... Doing my degree at the same time too...

Thing is, many people come to the country and expect to "have it easy". I really hate it after all i've done and am still doing to get to where i am...

 

[Clashman]

Existing trade barriers towards third world countries needs to be removed. Of course, many politicians, left and right, are afraid of the consequences of doing that, cause jobs will move out of the country in larger degrees since it will be cheaper to put facilities where the labor costs are low. Long term, that's not a problem though, cause the third world would sooner or later reach comparable standards.

The problem with that, (and the problem I have with the original poster's comments in general), is that this isn't how the world's economy works. Companies don't move jobs to other areas of the world simply to lower the cost of labor, but also to use it as leverage against organized labor. IE, be quiet or we'll send your jobs to China. Rising standards of living and labor protections didn't simply happen in this country or any other one out of natural processes, or simply because multinationals came in and 'invested' in them. That happened for nearly 100 years under colonialism in Africa nd SE Asia, and even longer in Latin America without improving the situation very much. Things got better for the most part because people organized themselves and demanded that they get better. Third world countries in particular need to be allowed to enter into the global economy at their own pace, and not simply have it thrust upon them. That is a recipe for a crushed and subservient economy.

Furthermore, I think we do in fact need to see a democratic reorganization of the workplace. Workers are already in general the greatest stockholders in their companies, they should have the control that comes with it through elected representatives, (as well as direct democracy on a number of issues, such as deciding on opening a new plant elsewhere). That way, when a company opens up a new plant, they will do so as a result of actual expansion, (with all the rights and benefits their North American or European counterparts would recieve), and not simply as a result of trying to cut costs and increasing profits by shifting labor to countries with weaker labor movements.

 

[Clashman]

Learning english to live and be a part of this counrty is required. My fathre and his family lived in italy till he was 16. They all came here (he was the second youngest) they all know english except my grandma but even she can understand what you are saying in english she just can't respond in english. There were no tvs in italian or drivers tests in italian

And my question is "why"? Many people come here fleeing political persecution, (we have a huge Somali population in my neighborhood), and asking them all to know english before they come here is ridiculous and absurd. There's hundreds of thousands of people in Somalia who have been killed through civil war and famine, and if they weren't here right now a good chunk of those in my neighborhood would likely be dead. Similarly, many refugees from Latin America in the 80's came from El Salvador, Nicaragua, Guatemala, etc. I personally am more than willing to go through the discomfort of a few communications problems while I'm here so that a few more won't be killed, or will now be able to support their families back home.

 

[London Geezer]

Well, if not beforehand, the state should make sure that they do get the right education, maybe pay for their english courses. I think that would only help society and wouldn't be too expensive.

Learning a language is easier when you are in the country you need to learn the language of, however having "ethnic minority areas" doesn't help the fact that many immigrants can be very well off living in england/USA/any other country without the need of learning the language. I think the whole mentality should change, and the Governments should make it easier for the public to accept them. For god's sake they made it with Gay discrimination (which is really a non-issue now, after all the gay bashing in the 80s), it can't be that hard with immigration!

 

[Clashman]

I was actually going to add on what london-boy just said, but he pretty much summed up what I wanted to add.

 

[RussSchultz]

asking them all to know english before they come here is ridiculous and absurd.

I don't think that's what he was saying. He was saying his parents came to the US, learned english, and integrated into society. Which many minorities seem content not to do, and thats somewhat encouraged by the State (or not discouraged).

I'd prefer for them to integrate into society and not make microcosms, though I do like (and I realize how much I liked after moving from a multicultural city like Houston, to a bi-cultural city like Austin) all that comes with multi-culturalism (tasty restaurants, in particular).