Series X Refresh and Next Generation Xbox Hardware

TAA /= MS. And modern, well-implemented TAA results in very good image quality in native 4K, practically better than a previous 8xMSAA! Yes, its softness can be noticeable under 4K, but remember that DLSS also results in a softer image compared to high native resolutions.

VRS. VRS is present in several first-party MS games and works well (almost unnoticed). However, the modern software form of VRS is even more advanced and has become/will be an important performance function of the Unreal Engine starting with version 5.4. Based on the available data, its use results in a performance increase of up to 40-50% for current generation consoles.
 
Saidur_Ali said:
This is likely last revision of Series X. In a couple years time, they should be releasing a handheld and a premium PC like Xbox console and maybe by third party partners like Asus going by the rumours. They might be using NPU upscaling like AutoSR. Going by what Mark Cerny said, that they motivated AMD to improve RT, Xbox might be using the same solution so could be just a faster framerate console thanks to Zen 5 cores and higher quality assets (GDDR7) over something like PS5 Pro rather than a true generational leap that brings more of a step over what can be done currently. Maybe they will update specs of their PC console around the time of PS6 launch so they remain competitive. It might work out for them if it ends up being a cheaper PC alternative if it allows the full Windows experience. However, I think Windows PC OEMs won't be too happy if it starts cannibalising their PC sales. If they just allow certain approved launchers, then it might be more niche if there is no hardware subsidy but they could could find their market more so with the handheld but will be tough competition against Switch successor and all the other handhelds out there.
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Yeah makes sense. Considering how much money they could have saved by designing a cheaper Series X with a cheaper APU now at 6nm. Seems they really defunded alot of initiatives at Xbox related to hw. I still dont see why they just dont fund designing a smaller Series X similarly to the PS5 slim. Especially for the digital edition. They could save a few millions from that. At the same time I can see how saving a few millions dollars would not be a major initiative since the console is already profitable and MSFT's bottom line wouldnt be really affected by such an improvement but still seems imprudent not to do so.
 
Shifty Geezer said:
Has VRS results ever been quantified? Like a game (on PC) that didn't have it and then had it patched in? Or a setting that disables it?
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All PC players I know disable VRS when they can (as they can actually compare with or without). They immediately notice the blocky textures (one told me PS1-like textures) and don't like it and performance difference is negligeable for them.

There was one game, Dead Space remake where it was famously (ab)used on consoles, people complained, they removed it without performance difference. Case is closed it will never be used again in any multiplatform title. RDNA2 VRS as it is right now is an half-assed feature bringing more negatives than positives (the way quincunx was) and is dead.
 
Doom Eternal on Series consoles used it and looks decent.

It's also one of those features that you need to integrate in to the engine from the get go rather than bolting it on so you can take full advantage of it.

COD uses it, Horizon Forbidden West on PS4 consoles uses it, so it's not that it's a pointless feature (because it isn't) it just needs integrating properly.
 
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VRS technology plays an important role in the graphic implementation of today's games. It is more and more imperceptibly integrated into games and cannot be switched from the menu.

As I indicated earlier, the newer versions of UE5 explicitly build on the ability to improve VRS performance. Both on Xbox and PS. So there's no need to be a PS fanboy and slander every technique that MS has to do with LOL.
 
QPlayer said:
VRS technology plays an important role in the graphic implementation of today's games. It is more and more imperceptibly integrated into games and cannot be switched from the menu.

As I indicated earlier, the newer versions of UE5 explicitly build on the ability to improve VRS performance. Both on Xbox and PS. So there's no need to be a PS fanboy and slander every technique that MS has to do with LOL.
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Some implementations are good but some aren’t very good and the performance boost is basically zero. Halo Infinite on console has a weird precision issue which causes models to jitter. Also when talking about Xbox we are referring to the hardware tier 2 VRS they made a big deal of with the Series consoles, not the modern platform-agnostic software VRS.

I don’t think anyone on this form is a PS fanboy, most people here game on PC. Console warriors in 2024 make me laugh tbh, most people have already figured out PC is the better platform yet there remains two groups fighting over which subscription-locked plastic box (which these days is just an AMD PC lol) is better.
 
Hardware VRS is an avenue for developers to explore if they want VRS on the 3D pipeline. There are various ways to implement it, in both compute and in graphics but it’s provided if that’s the route they want to go. Nothing wrong with options, and sometimes it may make sense, and in other scenarios perhaps less sense.

A lot of the latest features are just features that developers have created their own implementations of. Now everyone is provided a hardware path to those features, with the pros and cons of a hardware locked path.

we originally said that VRS is useful if you’re compute bound. Which is still likely to be true. But in the age of ML based antialiasing techniques, perhaps saving compute is worthwhile in exchange for it. VRS + TAA can look like Vaseline when poorly implemented, but VRS + DLSS (catch all term) may be a reasonable compromise.
 
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Cappuccino said:
Some implementations are good but some aren’t very good and the performance boost is basically zero.
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I ran some quick benches on Gears back in the day. 3-11% depending on the settings. Not huge, but not nothing, either. Obviously it will depend on the game, and the more aggressive settings have obvious quality issues, but the quality setting was pretty close to native. If you can get a 3% performance boost for perceptibly free, I'd say that's worth it. I think the future will have a version of VRS that activates like current full screen resolution scaling does, where you pick a desired framerate and the quality of the shading is variable to meet that performance target on a more granular level than full screen.
 
Coupled with ML enhancement, VRS will be less negative. Then again, perhaps ML enhancement will get a point where you don't even need the fancy shaders to reduce via VRS.
 
The big win for VRS will be increasing RT performance, there's some good articles and videos about it.

Accelerating raytracing using software VRS

"Still, there is a lot of opportunity to lower the shading rate during raytracing. The per wave rejection version of VRS reduces the RTGI cost by 27.3%"
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It's still very much a feature that engine engineers need to play around with over the next 5 years or so to see where the big wins are with it.
 
Shifty Geezer said:
Has VRS results ever been quantified? Like a game (on PC) that didn't have it and then had it patched in? Or a setting that disables it?
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The Coalition wrote a detailed blog post on VRS. Their implementation was tailored to minimize visual impact.
devblogs.microsoft.com

Moving Gears to Tier 2 Variable Rate Shading - DirectX Developer Blog

The team at The Coalition haven’t stopped innovating since bringing Tier 1 VRS to Gears Tactics, and have brought Tier 2 VRS support to both Gears 5 and Gears Tactics. The team saw similarly large perf gains from VRS Tier 2 – up to 14%! – this time with no noticeable visual impact. See for […]
devblogs.microsoft.com devblogs.microsoft.com
For PC we allowed VRS to be tuned with 3 different video settings: Quality, Balanced, and Performance. Quality matches what is used by default on Xbox Series X|S and targets no perceptual impact. Balanced similarly targets a minimal amount of perceptual difference, but under scrutiny may show some differences in favor of extra performance. Performance is an aggressive use of VRS that makes some visible compromises but gets back the most performance.
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The below results were taken on an AMD 6900 XT at 4K resolution with all graphics settings set to Ultra:

Frametime (ms)Savings (ms)Savings (%)
VRS Off13.3––
VRS Quality12.318%
VRS Balanced12.11.210%
VRS Performance11.91.412%


To push the AMD 6900 XT further, we ran another test at 4K resolution with all settings set to Insane and with Screen Space Global Illumination on:

Frametime (ms)Savings (ms)Savings (%)
VRS Off23.0––
VRS Quality19.83.2114%
VRS Balanced19.63.4115%
VRS Performance18.54.5520%
Click to expand...
 
The Tier2 VRS used in XSX was a hardware-level VRS and was used in UE5.2. However, in UE5.4, they took the whole technique and programmed it into the compute shader pipeline. Thus, VRS became software-based and, interestingly, became much more efficient.
A specific scene from the Matrix demo at approx. 1800p dynamic rendering:

PS5: 4.92 ms without VRS and 3.61 ms with VRS on, this is ~30% performance increase
XSX: 4.92ms without VRS and 3.05 ms with VRS on, this is ~ 40% performance increase.


And as for quality, a quote from the GDC docs:
"All of this worked out, and allowed us to efficiently perform 2x2 software VRS,
with extremely impressive results, and very little to any noticeable differences
in image quality."


Only games made with UE5.4 will come from the second half of next year at the earliest.
 
QPlayer said:
And as for quality, a quote from the GDC docs:
"All of this worked out, and allowed us to efficiently perform 2x2 software VRS,
with extremely impressive results, and very little to any noticeable differences
in image quality."
Click to expand...
UE5.2 and above, they have custom bespoke VRS that is done with their compute shaders, it's not the same as hardware VRS, that's a separate pipeline.
 
QPlayer said:
The Tier2 VRS used in XSX was a hardware-level VRS and was used in UE5.2. However, in UE5.4, they took the whole technique and programmed it into the compute shader pipeline. Thus, VRS became software-based and, interestingly, became much more efficient.
A specific scene from the Matrix demo at approx. 1800p dynamic rendering:

PS5: 4.92 ms without VRS and 3.61 ms with VRS on, this is ~30% performance increase
XSX: 4.92ms without VRS and 3.05 ms with VRS on, this is ~ 40% performance increase.


And as for quality, a quote from the GDC docs:
"All of this worked out, and allowed us to efficiently perform 2x2 software VRS,
with extremely impressive results, and very little to any noticeable differences
in image quality."


Only games made with UE5.4 will come from the second half of next year at the earliest.
Click to expand...

What were the results in that same scene when using hardware based Tier 2 VRS?
 
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