Vibration effect

L

LeeBe

Newcomer
Hi all, Ive been reading this board for a while but this is the first time ive posted.

Ive got a problem thats hard to describe and very hard to pinpoint :?

In any game, when I look around with the mouse I get a sort of vibration of everything. Like trying to focus on a tuning fork :?

Ive got no idea what it could be, Ive tried:

5 different mice (ps2/corded/cordless/usb)
countless formats
All driver revisions, including Omega
Every setting ive found in Rage3d tweak 3.8
Different monitor
4 graphics cards (Rad9700pro, GF2mx, GF4400, GF4600)
All other settings related to stutter @Rage3d forums
Unplugging all hdd's, cdrom's, fans etc
Different memory sticks
Different HDD's
Different motherboard (nForce)
OpenGL and D3D

:(
Ive ran out of things to change.

It seems Very bad with ATI's latest screensaver, the Gargoyle Clock. If I move the mouse its really bad but if I let it do it itself, its ok.
Also if I straff in a game its ok, no vibration. Only when I use the mouse :(

I hope anyone here can help

specs

WinXp
AthlonXP2200+
Radeon 9700 pro
Asus A7N8X mobo
1gig Crucial DDR333 2x512
2 power supplys (Q-Tec 550w running only mobo and Macron 300w for hdd's, fans etc)
No pci cards except 4 port usb card
Zalman silent hsf
 
Could this somehow be there is significant amount of noise being introduced as the video signal is transmitted via the video cable. Try a different VGA cable? Throw on a ferite core?

Is this an NEC monitor, BTW?
 
Hi Saem thanks for the reply

I had wondered about noise

Its an unbranded CTX3700 19"

But I have tried a Hansol 710A 17" and it had the same effect
 
The core might be worth looking into, but I don't know if your monitors have detachable monitor cable.

This is puzzling, is your case really dusty? Yeah, I'm stretching, but you seem to have done a fairly exhaustive debug operation.
 
From the description of the problem, something is causing clock speed jitter at the GPU or somehow modifying the delay of the video signal through the video cable back and forth. Could be contention between the 2 power supplies - if they don't agree exactly all the time on what is supposed to be e.g. 12V (most power supplies tend to be off by up to 0.2 or so volts in either direction), you could get current flowing from one of the supplies into the other or otherwise in unexpected directions, which may have ... interesting effects on the system. Perhaps the mouse cable is acting as an antenna or something like that, disturbing the video cable.

So: try to hook up everything to just one of the power supplies (and leave the other one disconnected) and see if that has any effect on the problem. That's the only idea I can come up with right now.
 
Why two power supplies anyway? What benefits would you have, especially if one is a 550W? And what sane motherboard would require 550W?!
 
First thought:
Mouse sampling out of sync with rendering.

That's the way it always is. The mouse sends position changes at fixed time intervalls. And if that interval isn't the same as the rendering time, the game can see one position update one frame and two the next. This means that the mouse speed seems to jerk from frame to frame, and that can be perceived as vibrating edges when moving the mouse. (Most visible when circle-strafing, looking at a vertical edge.)

I don't think it's possible to poll the mouse once per frame (definitely not for PS2, don't know about USB), so the only way to reduce it is to increase the sample rate. This won't remove the "vibrations", but it will reduce them.
PS2 mice have a very low sampling rate at default, but it can be raised to 200Hz. USB mice is fixed at 120Hz.

Look for a tool called ps2rate.

But as you say that you already have tested with an USB mouse, it might not be the reason. Because 120Hz is usually enough. But maybe you're more sensitive to the vibrations than me.
 
If nothing else works, find someone with a DVI cable and LCD display and try using that. It should make it pretty clear if you are getting hardware interference on the cable or if it's a software issue.

Nite_Hawk
 
wow thanks for all the replys.

Monitor cable is not detachable but I moved it out of the way of everything else and no change.
case was really dusty but I stripped it right down and now it shines :)

Tried with each power supply on its own, other one was unplugged. and no change

Ive got two power supplys because ive got 5 hard drives a cdrw and a dvd
and I thought it might put a bit of a strain on my 300w supply so I got a cheap 550w one.

QTEC 550 Watt PSU P4 ready Twin Fan Retail Boxed
Our Price £18.50
P0034825_C0000023_P0000000.jpg



The Mouse sampling thing sounds very close and it did seem a touch better with ps2 at 100Hz over usb. (ps2rate doesnt work with WinXp)
and
that can be perceived as vibrating edges when moving the mouse. (Most visible when circle-strafing, looking at a vertical edge
Click to expand...
that sounds exactly like it and the only thing I havent tried but will give it a go now. If not I think I can get my hands on an LCD display.

Thanks
 
I found this at microsoft.com

The reporting rate of a mouse is the frequency (the number of times per second) with which it reports its current position and is measured in hertz (Hz); the faster the rate, the less lag time experienced. If your previous mouse was attached to a PS2 port (and you haven’t overclocked the mouse speed rate to bump it up from the default refresh rate of 40-60Hz), you’ll find that a RF-powered wireless mouse feels and handles similarly. However, if you’re replacing a USB connected mouse (100-125Hz) with a USB RF wireless mouse (50Hz), you may notice, especially if you are an intense hardcore gamer, that the mouse tracking speed is slower. The Microsoft Wireless IntelliMouse Explorer is somewhat more responsive, with an apparent 80Hz average refresh rate. For most people, a wireless mouse is a great end user upgrade.
Click to expand...

Ive put a ps2 mouse at 200Hz and I can tell the difference a lot
Ive just paid £40 for a Microsoft Wireless IntelliMouse Explorer :(

But I think thats what the problem is. Does anyone know if I can get it over 200? say...400Hz?
 
LeeBe said:
Ive put a ps2 mouse at 200Hz and I can tell the difference a lot
Ive just paid £40 for a Microsoft Wireless IntelliMouse Explorer :(

But I think thats what the problem is. Does anyone know if I can get it over 200? say...400Hz?
Click to expand...

You will not be able to detect sampling rates significantly above the refreshrate of the monitor. However, AFAIK there is no way to synchronize mouse polling with monitor refresh, so you do want your mouse polling high. How high is tricky to say, but 400 Hz starts to feel a bit excessive relative to refreshrate.

Wireless mice are notorious for their infrequent polling. Logitech MX-700 is the current champ, polling at roughly 120 Hz.

Entropy
 
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