Property of materials when C is replaced with Si...

G

Guden Oden

Senior Member
Legend
There's common speculation in the sci-fi world in particular about aliens based on silicon existing out there in the universe. Occationally they even come here and try to take us over, sometimes in the form of bacteria or viruses.

That made me think... As both materials belong to the same group in the periodic system that means they share common similarities of proerties... But they're not exactly the same naturally, which got me thinking again how those dissimilarities would manifest themselves. So how would for example a long-chained carbohydrate look and act if carbon was substituted with silicon? Would it still be black in color and oily in texture, or would it be a solid perhaps? In either case - would it be easily combustible?

What about silicon sugar then? Maybe we've found the newest, greatest form of artificial sweetening, or would it rather be a deadly poison or maybe share properties more akin to granite rather than dextrose? :D

Has anyone experimented along these lines, and if so, where can I read about it?
 
I don't think you'll find polysaccharides that are black - you're thinking of hydrocarbons, right? I am pretty sure Hydrosilicon makes Superman naughty.

No idea, sorry. :D
 
Guden Oden said:
There's common speculation in the sci-fi world in particular about aliens based on silicon existing out there in the universe. Occationally they even come here and try to take us over, sometimes in the form of bacteria or viruses.

That made me think... As both materials belong to the same group in the periodic system that means they share common similarities of proerties... But they're not exactly the same naturally, which got me thinking again how those dissimilarities would manifest themselves. So how would for example a long-chained carbohydrate look and act if carbon was substituted with silicon? Would it still be black in color and oily in texture, or would it be a solid perhaps? In either case - would it be easily combustible?

What about silicon sugar then? Maybe we've found the newest, greatest form of artificial sweetening, or would it rather be a deadly poison or maybe share properties more akin to granite rather than dextrose? :D

Has anyone experimented along these lines, and if so, where can I read about it?
Click to expand...


Well for one they wouldn't be called carbohydrates. :D

Second, i have no idea what would happen if someone were to suddenly substiture carbon atoms with silicon ones in organic molecules. My guess is, a big mess.
 
Silicon sugar would kill us. Si provokes cancer in humans, so it wouldn't work for us. Maybe for those aliens... ;)
 
_xxx_ said:
Silicon sugar would kill us. Si provokes cancer in humans, so it wouldn't work for us. Maybe for those aliens... ;)
Click to expand...

Si isn't inherently carcinogenic. Silica dust is if inhaled (look up the longest word in the English language) - there was a big hoohaa about it in the mining industry - but we have compounds containing silicon in our skin, bones etc.

The problem is that silicon is not as flexible in the way it forms compounds as carbon. It seems quite obvious that therein lies the reason for carbon's widespread occurence in biological systems (and silicon's relative absence). More interesting is the prospect of carbon replacing silicon in electronics. We'll probably be on here in a few years time arguing about the latest nanotube-based processes. :D
 
Try this, next time instead of using salt NaCl in your food, put KCl in instead. Both Na and K are in group I of the periodic chart. Both compounds look very similar too ie they both white crystals. :LOL:

• Symptoms of a potassium chloride overdose may include paralysis; numbness or tingling in the hands, arms, legs, or feet; an irregular heartbeat; low blood pressure (dizziness, confusion, weakness, fatigue); seizures; coma; and heart attack.
Click to expand...
 
_xxx_ said:
Silicon sugar would kill us. Si provokes cancer in humans, so it wouldn't work for us. Maybe for those aliens... ;)
Click to expand...
Better not drink from a glass then.

There's an interesting chapter in Bill Brysons "A short history of nearly everything" which basically sum were/are abundant where we evolved, but often find rare elements toxic. (Plutonium compounds being a rather extreme example).
 
PC-Engine said:
Try this, next time instead of using salt NaCl in your food, put KCl in instead.
Click to expand...

I do, every day (LoSalt contains more KCl than NaCl). In many ways it's better for you but doesn't quite taste the same.

Too much of anything is bad. Symptoms of NaCl overdose:

Irritation of GI mucosa, N&V, abdominal cramps, diarrhea, edema. Hypernatremia symptoms: irritability, restlessness, weakness, seizures, coma, tachycardia, hypertension, fluid accumulation, pulmonary edema, respiratory arrest.
Click to expand...
 
MuFu said:
PC-Engine said:
Try this, next time instead of using salt NaCl in your food, put KCl in instead.
Click to expand...

I do, every day (LoSalt contains more KCl than NaCl). In many ways it's better for you but doesn't quite taste the same.

Too much of anything is bad. Symtoms of NaCl overdose:

Irritation of GI mucosa, N&V, abdominal cramps, diarrhea, edema. Hypernatremia symptoms: irritability, restlessness, weakness, seizures, coma, tachycardia, hypertension, fluid accumulation, pulmonary edema, respiratory arrest.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...

Can you take the same amount of pure KCl as NaCl without problems? For example can you take a tablespoon 100% KCl without getting Potassium poisoning?
 
I would imagine so. Probably not great if you have kidney problems though.
 
PC-Engine said:
Can you take the same amount of pure KCl as NaCl without problems? For example can you take a tablespoon 100% KCl without getting Potassium poisoning?
Click to expand...

Why would u? :? I mean, really, one must be very bored to just "try a tablespoon of KCl"... :devilish:
 
Potassium chloride solution injected straight into the bloodstream causes cardiac arrest pretty easily, yet some "healthy" tablesalt substitutes use a significant percentage of potassium chloride with no health warnings at all really. I guess there's a difference if it's ingested or injected...
 
Simon F said:
There's an interesting chapter in Bill Brysons "A short history of nearly everything"...
Click to expand...

Great book. AFAIK the facts contained are largely non-contentious, but even if academics have torn it to pieces, it still makes for a very interesting and entertaining read. It's impressive in its own right as a compendium of knowledge - loads of referenced info in a very accessible form.

Definitely pick it up if you are "curious about stuff". 8)
 
AFAIK, silicon can to a very limited extent form chains like carbon can, but the chains are substantially less stable than carbon chains, so the complexity that can arise in silicon-based molecules is much lower than that of carbon-based molecules. Also, such silicon chains tend to combust very rapidly if they come into contact with oxygen, making it essentially impossible to make a hypothetical silicon equivalent of e.g. carbohydrates.

As for toxicity of KCl, wikipedia lists ots oral LD50 dose as 2.5 grams per kilogram of body weight.
 
Guden Oden said:
Potassium chloride solution injected straight into the bloodstream causes cardiac arrest pretty easily, yet some "healthy" tablesalt substitutes use a significant percentage of potassium chloride with no health warnings at all really. I guess there's a difference if it's ingested or injected...
Click to expand...

Well injecting plain H2O (hypotonic water solution) into the bloodstream will kill a person too ie it will cause cellular lysis.
 
If you go through the code and replace "C" with "Si" or any other similarly pronounced phrase, it is still plagarism and copyright infringment. Not to mention probably a breach of the EULA that you've reverse engineered the code.
 
I think this link is relevant to the topic at hand:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_chauvinism

Personally given the exquisite capabilities of carbon, I believe it will most likely be the basis of future artificially created/enhanced advanced replicators(what IMHO could very well be the basic posthuman unstoppable weapon that allows them to achieve a global coup d'etat and bring about an IDEAL world... irregardless of opposition ;) ). In a way I'm a sort of Carbon Chauvinist.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top