NV28M just a GF4 4200 mobile part...

[McElvis]

Does this mean that the NV28 is just a replacement for the GF4 4200, not the GF4 4600?

NVIDIA will try its best to catch up soon. It won't take long for NV18M's release, something like GeForce4 Go460 with AGP 8x support. Only a short while later, and probably before the end of this year, there will be NV28M, a mobile derivative of GeForce4 Ti 4200, which will probably beat Mobility Radeon 9000 in 3D performance, but lag behind it in terms of power consumption. What NVIDIA is really waiting for is the NV3x family of chips. In the Spring of next year we will see a notebook chip in 0.13 micron process with DirectX 9 support. Until then, NVIDIA will have a hard time to compete with ATi in the notebook arena.

http://www.tomshardware.com/mobile/02q3/020829/radeon9000-13.html

 

[kid_crisis]

AFAIK there is no difference between the graphics chip used in the 42000 vs. the 4600 right now. The design is exactly the same, the only difference is probably "speed binning" of parts, i.e. when they test the parts they put the faster ones in the 4600 category.

Good to hear there is a mobile vesion of the NV28 though. Nvidia needed a mobile DX8.1 part.

 

[Galilee]

So NV18 is a GF4-MX upgrade, and NV28 is a mobile part? wow, that was surpricing.

 

[McElvis]

I think there will be an NV28 and also an NV28M (mobile part)

 

[Joe DeFuria]

Good to hear there is a mobile vesion of the NV28 though. Nvidia needed a mobile DX8.1 part.

Well, I think the NV28m, whenever it's released, will not really be a "mobile" part as much as it's for "desknote" parts. Probably too high power consumption and heat for actual notebooks.

Interestingly, ATI is currently targeting the "desknotes" with the 9000 chip. (Clocking it higher and with faster memory than the standard mobility 9000).

 

[Bigus Dickus]

So Integrated mobile NV28M = 86 million transistors, and desktop NV28 = 66 million?

 

[Pete]

If nV and ATi are having heat and power problems with desktop versions of their DX9 parts, I don't see how they're going to cram 100M+ transistors into a notebook, or even a desknote, without some serious power and heat issues.

 

[RussSchultz]

"...now, with coffee warmer!!!!!"

 

[Nagorak]

If nV and ATi are having heat and power problems with desktop versions of their DX9 parts, I don't see how they're going to cram 100M+ transistors into a notebook, or even a desknote, without some serious power and heat issues.

That's a good point. After years of notebooks catching up with desktop 3D performance, we may see them start to diverge again. It kind of looks like what has happened is graphics chips have slowly gotten more powerful and efficient, so that they could be stowed away in a notebook and still be low power. Now, however, they're getting so powerful (and power hungry) that they'll just suck up too much power and cause too much heat in such a small place. Then again, AMD Athlon CPUs are in notebooks so who knows...maybe they can even provide better cooling for the GPUs inside since notebooks have propriety cooling designs?

 

[Ichneumon]

Good to hear there is a mobile vesion of the NV28 though. Nvidia needed a mobile DX8.1 part.

Well, I think the NV28m, whenever it's released, will not really be a "mobile" part as much as it's for "desknote" parts. Probably too high power consumption and heat for actual notebooks.

Interestingly, ATI is currently targeting the "desknotes" with the 9000 chip. (Clocking it higher and with faster memory than the standard mobility 9000).

That's exactly what i've been told. the NV28M will only be available in "desknote" designs because it is essentailly a repackaged NV28 chip. It will be incredibly power hungry.

ATI's M9 desknote variant right now is expected to be somewhere around 275/275 clocks, with the potential to go higher.

 

[KimB]

If nV and ATi are having heat and power problems with desktop versions of their DX9 parts, I don't see how they're going to cram 100M+ transistors into a notebook, or even a desknote, without some serious power and heat issues.

Only ATI is currently having heat/power problems with their desktop DX9 part.

The NV30 isn't out yet

 

[Ichneumon]

If nV and ATi are having heat and power problems with desktop versions of their DX9 parts, I don't see how they're going to cram 100M+ transistors into a notebook, or even a desknote, without some serious power and heat issues.

Only ATI is currently having heat/power problems with their desktop DX9 part.

The NV30 isn't out yet

lol

 

[Pete]

Only ATI is currently having heat/power problems with their desktop DX9 part.

The NV30 isn't out yet

Duly humbled!



I meant 100+ mil transistor parts only present problems when being crammed into 1.5" designs with only 25mm fans for cooling. Still (not knowing anything about the power-draw benefits of .13u and DDR-II), I'm fairly sure nV will push a common PC's power limits (via internal connectors, etc.) if nec'y to cement their performance lead over ATi.

 

[PVR_Extremist]

If nV and ATi are having heat and power problems with desktop versions of their DX9 parts, I don't see how they're going to cram 100M+ transistors into a notebook, or even a desknote, without some serious power and heat issues.

That's a good point. After years of notebooks catching up with desktop 3D performance, we may see them start to diverge again. It kind of looks like what has happened is graphics chips have slowly gotten more powerful and efficient, so that they could be stowed away in a notebook and still be low power. Now, however, they're getting so powerful (and power hungry) that they'll just suck up too much power and cause too much heat in such a small place. Then again, AMD Athlon CPUs are in notebooks so who knows...maybe they can even provide better cooling for the GPUs inside since notebooks have propriety cooling designs?

Well thats where a PowerVR tech design could score a big win. Plenty of graphics power in a package that does not consume much battery power and give much heat. I'm going by rumours that they were developing DX8.1 type tech for integrated endpoints. Does integrated include notebooks?

They've already done it on a minuscule scale with MBX (albeit for a different market segment) but that has surely got to be out of its league with respect to a NV28M and notebook chipsets.