KK: We'll use heat pipes and a custom cooling solution - PSU could sold separately

[ManuVlad3.0]

KK: We'll use heat pipes and a custom cooling solution

http://www.maxconsole.net/?mode=news&newsid=8008

"We'll use heat pipes and a custom cooling solution, but the methods used will be common," said the SCEI president. "We definitely aren't using any proprietary methods... We certainly couldn't fit a liquid cooling system [in the PS3]... We're spending a lot on heat and electromagnetic interference [management]. The power supply could almost be sold separately."

WTF! PSU sold separately?

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Not if it's internal! I think he's saying the tech is such that the PSU is worthy of being a standalone product.

 

[Gradthrawn]

WTF! PSU sold separately?

No.

The power supply could almost be sold separately."

"Could be" is far cry from "could almost be." Not to mention that I believe the context of that particular statement was said in a joking matter. At least according to other translations, IIRC. I’ll have to try and find one to see if that’s the case or not. Besides, you'd have to be crazy to think they would even consider making the power supply a separate (mandatory) accessory instead of the HDD. If there was any mandatory part to be sold separately, it would be the HDD.

 

[creon100]

Yeah, he was joking, kind of saying "We've spent so many resources getting the PSU in a state where it can be internal that we could sell the thing seperately."

I can see it now, people take their PS3 home, take it out - "Hey, where's the power plug, why is there this "PSU Slot" cover right here." They check in the manual, "Power Supply Sold Seperately, please choose the wattage of the PSU you purchase based on the peripherals you wish to use with your PS3. Happy gaming!!"

 

[ManuVlad3.0]

Thanks for replys, guys.
And about the use of heat pipes? Any advantage?

 

[Mmmkay]

Thanks for replys, guys.
And about the use of heat pipes? Any advantage?

Well, you can be more creative and efficient with your active cooling, since they allow you to channel the heat to a custom exhaust area rather than having a fan adjacent to the chip. Given the form factor, I think it would have been rather difficult to manage the heat dissipation in the system any other way. The 360 also makes use of heat pipes with its cooling mechanisms.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Thanks for replys, guys.
And about the use of heat pipes? Any advantage?

Heat pipes just enable heat to be redirected to other areas, so you can pipe the heat away from a confined space and out to a larger heatsink where you have space to fit it. So yeah, they have an advantage, but it's not anything out of the ordinary.

 

[Fox5]

http://www.maxconsole.net/?mode=news&newsid=8008



WTF! PSU sold separately?

1. Doesn't every console have a custom cooling solution?

2. Dreamcast used heatpipies I believe.

3. Intel's new liquid cooling system begs to differ that they couldn't fit a liquid cooling system in there. In addition, people have successfully modded laptops to have liquid cooling system. (not sure if there are any mass produced laptops with liquid cooling or heat pipes though)

4. This is just Ken Kutaragi making big statements to trumpet the PS3.

5. Why not an external PSU like Microsoft did?

 

[RavenFox]

http://www.maxconsole.net/?mode=news&newsid=8008



WTF! PSU sold separately?

0_o are you for real? A 3rd grader could easily figured out what was said and meant.
Sorry just really annoys me when people blank out like this.

 

[Dave Baumann]

2. Dreamcast used heatpipies I believe.

IIRC early DC's actually had a proper water/liquid cooling system.

Heatpipes on computer equipment are a slightly more recent phenomena. The CPU on 360 uses uses a simple heat pipe that loops around to distribute heat towards the top of the HSF; more elborate heatpipes, such as ones cropping up on motherboards are used a bit more overtly to distribute the the heat to a cooling device thats quite a distance from the actual heat source.

 

[Guden Oden]

IIRC early DC's actually had a proper water/liquid cooling system.

No, it was a set of heatpipes that led to a small sink mounted next to the exhaust cooling fan. One pipe led to the CPU, the other to the graphics chip. That it wasn't a proper liquid cooling system is easily ascertained by the lack of a pump, or reservoir, or waterblock for that matter. Nor was there one pipe for cool incoming liquid and another for leading away hot liquid; there was just one pipe per chip, sealed at either end with no moving parts other than the fan.

The reason it became known as a liquid/water cooling system or similar is that hardly anybody had any proper idea what a heatpipe was back then. Sort of like when MS started talking about a 'liquid cooling system' for the 360, and silly people on the internet started screaming about watercooling, when in actuality it was a heatpipe.

 

[sonyps35]

The reason it became known as a liquid/water cooling system or similar is that hardly anybody had any proper idea what a heatpipe was back then. Sort of like when MS started talking about a 'liquid cooling system' for the 360, and silly people on the internet started screaming about watercooling, when in actuality it was a heatpipe.

So is there liquid in the 360?

I dont think so, hence MS wouldn't have called it liquid cooling.

This is an old article btw, and roughly KK was just making a joke.

I AM wondering how the PSU will fit in PS3 internally. Looking at the MS power brick size..perhaps it could be done but methinks it will add a lot of weight to the PS3, and would probably then have to be less beefy and therefore less effective. I wonder if Sony will cop out and follow MS with the design like they already have so many times before in the end, and go with a power brick.

We already know PS3 is bigger and heavier than Xbox360, thinking of cramming the power brick into 360 as well, and you get the idea it wouldn't be an easy task.

 

[Carl B]

Yeah, this info is ancient (relatively) and previously discussed...

Kutaragi was essentially boasting as to the technology that's going into the PS3 PSU (in the way of EMI resistance and output efficiency), saying it's worthy of standalone sales.

Actual PSU componentry is significantly smaller than 360's external supply would imply, btw. When you see the size of that thing, a lot of that is simply the physical shielding required to be external. Look at an internal PC power supply rated at 600W and you'll see what can be done volume-wise. I'm building PC's all the time for this or that reason, and in a closed system like a console you can get the power supplies even smaller. Forget the 600W example from above, and next time you're handling an ATX-compliant PSU with, say, a 300/400W rating, look inside through the metal grill/slits. The actual power array contained inside is frankly tiny in comparison to the casing. The 600W supply is going to be much more serious, but I digress...

 

[Guden Oden]

So is there liquid in the 360?

I dont think so, hence MS wouldn't have called it liquid cooling.

I don't understand you. They did call it liquid cooling (or something very similar), and yes, there is liquid in it, since the xenon heatsink has an integrated heatpipe.

A heatpipe without any liquid in it would just be a hollow metal tube, and thus an even worse conductor of heat than a solid metal tube (which in of itself is NOT a particulary good conductor).

I AM wondering how the PSU will fit in PS3 internally.

What makes it so difficult to understand?

PS3's volume is greater than 360's, and you can bet Sony won't use a clunky PC-sized optical drive in it either. That drive (and the pinched side panels) is probably the biggest reason the PSU is external in the 360. Look at the PSUs you can get for various small form factor systems, I've seen 150W units no bigger than 2 DVD cases at most. If the solution is customized for the task, it doesn't have to occupy a very large volume.

 

[OtakingGX]

I wouldn't consider this to be any sort of big breakthrough. The heatpipe will have to run to a radiator with a big old fan blowing on it. A heatpipe doesn't magically make heat disappear, it just gets it somewhere more convenient for you to disperse it into the atmosphere. I think the size of the console and the fact that the PSU is to be integrated requires a heat pipe. The interior is not big and roomy like a PC, so you can't just blow some air through it to cool everything.

One thing is for sure, that sucker is going to be hot! Don't put it on carpet or in an enclosed space unless you want to start a fire.

 

[_phil_]

Lost in translation again ?
Babel all over again....

 

[DragonGuardian]

I remember there is a thread about the possible technology used in the PS3 power supply unit.

Found it, here is the thread:
http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/showthread.php?t=26154

Link to the article:
http://www.eetimes.jp/contents/200505/82_2_20050517185534.cfm

Link to the press release:
http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix.zhtml?c=107103&p=irol-newsArticle&t=Regular&id=586406&

Unfortunately, that thread never turned into a discussion of power supply technology.
Is there any follow up on that?

I have to admit i have zero knowledge about power supply technology so I cannot comment on that.

And i am sorry if it has been pointed out that that tech is more marketing spin more than a technology advancement.

 

[macabre]

I don`t know about DC tech either, but here is something about the FPA tech that`s mentioned in the article:
http://www.ecnmag.com/article/CA332496.html

 

[Fox5]

Yeah, this info is ancient (relatively) and previously discussed...

Kutaragi was essentially boasting as to the technology that's going into the PS3 PSU (in the way of EMI resistance and output efficiency), saying it's worthy of standalone sales.

Actual PSU componentry is significantly smaller than 360's external supply would imply, btw. When you see the size of that thing, a lot of that is simply the physical shielding required to be external. Look at an internal PC power supply rated at 600W and you'll see what can be done volume-wise. I'm building PC's all the time for this or that reason, and in a closed system like a console you can get the power supplies even smaller. Forget the 600W example from above, and next time you're handling an ATX-compliant PSU with, say, a 300/400W rating, look inside through the metal grill/slits. The actual power array contained inside is frankly tiny in comparison to the casing. The 600W supply is going to be much more serious, but I digress...

It depends on the quality of the power supply, the actual power circuitry barely takes up any space, but the cooling devices do. I've noticed the "higher quality" power supplies generally look the same as cheapie ones, but with huge, heavy heatsinks on them. Like my near silent 480W Antec Neopower. Then to contrast that I have a no-name 550W power supply (which actually cost a fair amount of money, though not as much as the neopower, and does deliver higher amounts of power than the Neopower does) which is extremely light but has two loud fans to cool it. Then I can pick up a generic 400W (say, one of those $10 or $15 ones) power supply which is again super light, has quiet fans, and delivers decent amounts of power in comparision to the Antec, but is likely to die a very quick death due to lack of cooling.
I'd imagine Sony's isn't going to have the kind of passive cooling the Antec does due to cost, so in order to keep the thing from frying, we're probably looking at a relatively loud fan on it. (for its power output)

 

[Squeak]

I wouldn't consider this to be any sort of big breakthrough. The heatpipe will have to run to a radiator with a big old fan blowing on it.

Not necessarily. A heatpipe or thermosiphon is the thermal equivalent of a really really good heatsink, which means that it can spread heat quickly over a much larger surface than a metal heatsink. The larger surface means that more air is touching the heat dissipator.
So a heatpipe can work at higher temperatures without a fan.

Edit:

Wow, 1024 posts reached! Binary anniversary and it only took four years!