Just completed all 9700Pro benchmarks for my VE review

Reverend

Banned
Tomorrow (7th Oct), hopefully, VE will sport its exciting cool, clean look to the public. Within this week, my 9700 Pro review will appear at VE. The review will be mostly "unconventional" (the only conventional benchmark will be UT2003retail, and LOTS of UT2003 benchies!) as well as showing how the 7.77 drivers tank in one game with 2xAA applied (but which has been fixed in internal driver version) ... there you go about the benefits of my using non-conventional "benchmarks" and discussing with ATI about my findings, which resulted in the fix :) .

<DB Edit: Do that at VE Rev.>

B3D staff, sorry about the para above. Other than that, this post has more to do with how excited I am about VE's "new site" than anything else I mentioned in this post :) .
 
I am looking forward to it Reverend. I hope it is a non ATI built card as in Crucial or Hercules or a Powered by ATI card to be more exact. What do you know about Crucial Radeon 9700 memory speeds? It suppose to be faster at 350mhz vice 310mhz of all the other Radeon 9700's.
 
I'm really looking forward to it Reverend. My friends who have the card are very jazzed. I'm interested in knowing if texture aliasing is handled well, especially in UT2k3. If you ever find the time to cook up some UT2k3 demo benches that would be a bonus (Is demo record working yet?). It'd be great to see one that mainly taxes the vidcard, one that taxes the cpu and one that is a "blend". I'm not satisfied with the games benchmarks although I'm very pleased that Epic/DE was thoughtful enough to include them. They're useful but somewhat lacking in providing definitive info as to the "hit" of individual features. That's from my very uneducated perspective anyways.
 
Will you do the same with the next Nvidia card you review Reverand? Will you put it through "unconventional benchmarks" to expose its weaknesses? I mean that's what you're trying to do here, isn't it? Show the R9700 weak points? :devilish:
 
Bajzel said:
Will you do the same with the next Nvidia card you review Reverand? Will you put it through "unconventional benchmarks" to expose its weaknesses? I mean that's what you're trying to do here, isn't it? Show the R9700 weak points? :devilish:

I can't speak for Anthony but the list of games I intend to install and actually play for my Sapphire 9700 review include:
Sacrifice
Giants
AvP2
Morrowind
Freedom Force
JK2
Bridge Commander
Independence War 2
Max Payne
UT2003
Mafia
Medieval: Total War
IWD2
WarCraft 3

And possibly a few, slightly older titles. I'm doing this to test the drivers. . .if there are any compatibility issues or rendering errors in any of the above games, and for general stability. In no way am I attempting to "expose its weaknesses". The only titles I plan on using to bench the card are UT2003 and JK2 (one D3D and one OpenGL). Other than that, I might throw in some Frap scores from titles like Morrowind and Mafia, though I'm somewhat reluctant to do even that.

With the above said, what's so wrong with doing an unconventional review?
 
Nothing wrong with doing an unconventional review. On the condition that you do an unconventional review with all of your video card reviews.
 
Bagzel said:
Will you do the same with the next Nvidia card you review Reverand? Will you put it through "unconventional benchmarks" to expose its weaknesses? I mean that's what you're trying to do here, isn't it? Show the R9700 weak points?

Oh boy, you havn't even read it. :( Plus there are plenty of conventional reviews on the internet to gawk over anyways. I rather have a review that really does find the weaknesses and stregths of a video card. So I hope Reverend blasts away and besides he exposed a problem to ATI and now it is fixed. Isn't that a good thing? :-?
 
Bajzel said:
Will you do the same with the next Nvidia card you review Reverand? Will you put it through "unconventional benchmarks" to expose its weaknesses? I mean that's what you're trying to do here, isn't it? Show the R9700 weak points? :devilish:
Please don't be foolish. Thank you in advance.
 
Bajzel said:
Will you do the same with the next Nvidia card you review Reverand? Will you put it through "unconventional benchmarks" to expose its weaknesses? I mean that's what you're trying to do here, isn't it? Show the R9700 weak points? :devilish:
In many past NVIDIA video card reviews, I have always done unconventional benchmarks.

In many past NVIDIA video card reviews, I have always exposed any weak points, whether through unconventional or conventional benchmarks.

Other than that, I will resist the urge to call you ignorant and a blind ATI fan.
 
lol, perhaps. I love hearing statements like that... I hear them in meetings at work all the time. It's almost like adding some disclaimer at the beginning negates the actual insult in some manner. My favorite ones come in this form:

"You know, I had thought about telling you just how much off an assinine buffoon you are, but I'm above that kind of thing."

:D
 
Back on the original topic...

Where's the link Rev? Slap those boys at VE around as the public wants to read your review. :)
 
Where's the link Rev? Slap those boys at VE around as the public wants to read your review.
It's being delayed slightly due to a couple of reasons :

(a) new VE site re-launch is delayed ever so slightly
(b) I had to re-write it (too long, VE Business Dev Manager says)
 
On the subject of "unconventional reviews," this is a post of mine from a few weeks ago in response to a simple question: "what kind of review would you like to see?"

Personally, I've always thought it would be nice to conduct a review (or at least part of a review) as follows:

(1) Choose a representation of games to benchmark on (um... like always)
(2) Determine what the "desired framerate" level is for smooth gaming, like 60fps or whatever is deemed appropriate
(3) Change resolutions and IQ settings to find perhaps two or three combinations for each card in each game that yields approximately the desired performance level
(4) Present screenshots for comparison of what each card "buys" you interms of IQ at the desired gaming performance

A review done in this manner would thus focus less on the absolute speed of each card, and instead show the gamer just what image quality differences there are between the cards at comparable performance levels.

For example, suppose that both cards can run QIII @ 1600 x 1200 with IQ maxxed, FSAA maxxed, and AF maxxed at the desired performance level (I'm not saying they can...). Screenshots then reveal that the AA and AF IQ differences are fairly small (they may not be, but this is hypothetical). In that case, the two cards would more or less "tie" in this benchmark, since they both deliver at the desired performance level with maximum image quality. If you are a gamer concerned only about QIII, then you would know that for you, the extra money is not buying you anything (which might not be so obvious looking at graphs showing one card scoring double what the other one is... what difference does 200 fps vs. 100 fp make?).

OK, now most games (and probably QIII) are not like that. At some point the framerate will drop below the "threshold." Screenshots will then show what each card offers to the gamer at the "smooth gaming" performance level. If you as a gamer don't see much difference (as in, if you aren't particularly bothered by aliased textures or geometry) then you might decide that the impressive looking graphs aren't all that impressive after all. I mean, if the reviewer is telling you that a $125 video card will run your favorite game just as fast as that $400 video card, and you don't see that much difference in IQ, then why should you spend the extra cash?

And, if you really do care about image quality, then the review will show you just what you are most interested in: how much better will things look for the extra hundred or two bucks? You might take one look and the screenshots and think "Holy crap, that's beautiful," in which case you have your answer... for $400 that picture can be yours at smooth performance levels.


Well... that's just my opinion anyway. I've never really seen a review approached in that manner. They always simply show screenshots at what is supposed to be equalivalent image quality (though, it hardly ever is), and they hardly ever show screenshots at the settings they are testing for performance comparisons. Approaching it from an "equal performance" instead of "equal quality" angle would more closely mimic how the actual gamer uses the card: fiddle with resolutions and settings until they find a combination that gives them maximum image quality without dropping below their preferred "threshold" of performance.

Why shouldn't a review do the same?
 
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