Intel's 624 Mhz Xscale cellphone CPU + MBX GPU > PSP???

Deadmeat

Banned
Two things confirmed.

- Intel Bulverde(aka XScale for cellphones) tops out at 624 Mhz, a blazing speed for cellphone application. Priced $32 each.
- Intel's 2700G companion GPU is indeed based on MBX, as confirmed by IMG today. Priced $17 each.

Together, they can deliver DC-grade 3D acceleration, DVD video, Wi-Fi, and WiMax.

Maybe NGage3 might outperform PSP afterall????
 
Re: Intel's 624 Mhz Xscale cellphone CPU + MBX GPU > PSP?

Deadmeat said:
Maybe NGage3 might outperform PSP afterall????

And in the end, you'll be happy?

By the way,

Deadmeat said:
-
Intel's 2700G companion GPU is indeed based on MBX, as confirmed by IMG today. Priced $17 each.

Together, they can deliver DC-grade 3D acceleration, DVD video, Wi-Fi, and WiMax.

This one (intel 2700G) is already called MBX-lite , we don't even know how the PsP compare to the MBX (at the same Clockspeed) so leave alone an MBX-light

edit:typo
 
What's the power consumption on that 624MHz cpu?

Intels combined cpu/gpu solution is pretty sweet. It can playback MPEG2 at 30fps at full DVD resolutions. It can also playback MPEG4, at the same framerate at 640x480. The core has a nice 16MB RAM bank piggybacked on the package.

$17 is a really good price. MBX-Lite is rated at 1M polys/s and 150M pixel/s @75MHz. It looks like PowerVR has found a nice niche in the mobile market with Intel, TI, Samsung, Philips, Sharp, and Renesis, among others licensing their IP.
 
Re: Intel's 624 Mhz Xscale cellphone CPU + MBX GPU > PSP?

Deadmeat said:
Maybe NGage3 might outperform PSP afterall????
tacit acknowledgment from DM that Sony has hardware to beat...mustn't look the gift horse in the mouth...
 
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This one (intel 2700G) is already called MBX-lite , we don't even know how the PsP compare to the MBX (at the same Clockspeed) so leave alone an MBX-light
Current Ngage1/2 run on TI OMAP processor and TI announced MBX integration for OMAP2, so a DC-grade 3D is indeed possible should Nokia continue on. But a bigger market impact could come from DoCoMo's phones should DoCoMo decided to pursue such device.

PVR2DC is dead, but its offspring MBX is everywhere. Let the DC legacy continue...
 
First off, thanks Sonic for reopening this thread, ("In after lock!!!).

I would like to note that I think perhaps the Mhz rating on the intel XScale CPU's might be misleading, at least from a gaming sense. There was a thread awhile ago on getting a specialized version of GLQuake up and running on a 400 mhz XScale CPU and an ATI Imageon 2300. What they ended up finding out was that because of certain imitations in the XScale CPU, in particular poor floating-point performance, they weren't able to get performance up much beyond 30 fps, despite the fact that the 2300 should be able to do quite a bit more than that. And so an XScale processor might not be the best bet for those looking for top mobile 3D gaming performance.

http://www.pocketmatrix.com/forums/...rt=0&sid=48a3bf85786f11a15644506f0f702331
 
...

And so an XScale processor might not be the best bet for those looking for top mobile 3D gaming performance.
Kind of agreed. Let's wait and see what TI does with its implementation of MBX... N-Gage 3 was supposed to use TI OMAP2 in the first place anyway...
 
PC-Engine said:
$17 is a really good price. MBX-Lite is rated at 1M polys/s and 150M pixel/s @75MHz. It looks like PowerVR has found a nice niche in the mobile market with Intel, TI, Samsung, Philips, Sharp, and Renesis, among others licensing their IP.

Intel's documentation on the 2700G indicates 831K triangles/s and 82M pixels/s at 75Mhz, so their own take seems to be a bit different. (Perhaps striving for lower power. I can't find if MBX-Lite lists its power requirements anywhere. Their site, btw, seems to mention 180M pixels/s.)

Not sure how its feature package would compare to Dreamcast, but this is looking well below "DC-grade."
 
Interesting found there DM.

Well, if the Older X-Scale is anything to go by then i hope they have worked on the power usage. On the last vacation i played some Scumm VM/Monkey Island 2 on my Ipaq (400 mhz) and i must say the battery drain surprised me a little.

Of course this cant be directly compared, but i found myself a bit surprised.
 
cthellis42 said:
PC-Engine said:
$17 is a really good price. MBX-Lite is rated at 1M polys/s and 150M pixel/s @75MHz. It looks like PowerVR has found a nice niche in the mobile market with Intel, TI, Samsung, Philips, Sharp, and Renesis, among others licensing their IP.

Intel's documentation on the 2700G indicates 831K triangles/s and 82M pixels/s at 75Mhz, so their own take seems to be a bit different. (Perhaps striving for lower power. I can't find if MBX-Lite lists its power requirements anywhere. Their site, btw, seems to mention 180M pixels/s.)

Not sure how its feature package would compare to Dreamcast, but this is looking well below "DC-grade."

At the PowerVR site it says:

MBX Lite provides fill rates exceeding 180 million pixels/sec and throughput of 1 million triangles/sec, from an ultrasmall, ultra power-efficient core.

Since it supports Polybump technology and will run apps in a small low res screen, it's probably on par or slightly better than "DC grade".

The combination of PowerVR MBX and Polybump can enable the high-end techniques found in the latest games titles, like real per-pixel lighting, even on embedded and mobile devices. Support for Polybump is featured in the PowerVR MBX SDK (Software Development Kit) available to PowerVR MBX licensees and third-party software developers.

Polybump is a new technology developed by Crytek to enhance 3D-rendering quality without increasing the overhead in real-time rendering. Polybump offers huge benefits for real-time 3D games. It allows users to create and render an extremely low poly model using an ultra high poly model while displaying virtually no visible difference between the two. Polybump reduces polygon numbers in real-time 3D graphics and increases image quality by combining Polybump and self-shadowing technology.

Says John Metcalfe, VP Business Development, PowerVR: "PowerVR MBX and Polybump both apply advanced thinking about graphic rendering to enable the maximum graphics performance from any given system. PowerVR MBX's impressive capabilities are further enhanced by Polybump, enabling embedded devices, like mobile phones, to provide performance far above user expectations. Polybump, utilising PowerVR's DOT3 hardware bump mapping, enables high-end techniques like per-pixel lighting. This feature is available on all of our embedded cores - from MBX Lite to Pro."

Says Faruk Yerli, Chief Marketing Officer, Crytek: "PowerVR MBX already minimises power-consumption and memory requirements in an embedded system while providing a powerful feature set. Combined with our Polybump technology it offers the most efficient solution for high-performance mobile and embedded graphics. Polybump enables developers to mimic high-polygon models using only a small number of polygons and with the hardware capabilities of PowerVR MBX this will enable astonishing content, even on mobile devices."
 
PC-Engine said:
Since it supports polybump technology and curved surfaces, it's probably slightly better than "DC grade".

featurewise? well:

* bumpmapping - i believe MBX does here exactly as PVR2DC did in this regard (i.e. dot3 present, cube mapping missing).
* tessallation/HOS support - does the lite version have it, i.e. isn't tessalation done on the TCL part?
 
Imagination Technologies’ PowerVR MBX family features the PowerVR VGP with CuSP™ (Curved Surface Processing), a fully programmable vertex shader with geometry amplification, which allows for the first time hardware-accelerated direct rendering of curved surfaces in mobile devices, and enables desktop-class continuous Level-of-Detail in handheld games with extremely low CPU overhead.

The VGP is optional but it works with MBX-Lite/MBX/MBX-Pro.

MBX and MBX-Pro also supports FSAA4Freeâ„¢ - full screen anti-aliasing with no performance loss delivering smoother more realistic graphics at mobile display resolutions.

Does PVRDC support trilinear filtering? I don't remember but the MBX series supports it as well as anisotropic.
 
darkblu said:
PC-Engine said:
Since it supports polybump technology and curved surfaces, it's probably slightly better than "DC grade".

featurewise? well:

* bumpmapping - i believe MBX does here exactly as PVR2DC did in this regard (i.e. dot3 present, cube mapping missing).
CLX (ie DC) was slightly different to the current standard (because it was invented indepently). MBX's is the standard DOT3.
* tessallation/HOS support - does the lite version have it, i.e. isn't tessalation done on the TCL part?
Both MBX variants have the option of a VGP. Obviously the performance of MBX-lite is not as high as MBX but, with a VGP, it should still be capable of supporting curved surfaces.
PC-Engine said:
Does PVRDC support trilinear filtering? I don't remember but the MBX series supports it as well as anisotropic.
CLX did have trilinear, but it required two passes (whereas, ironically, the (bilinear)anistropic mode didn't).
 
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