If the DC was still going today what would it's worldwide install base have been?
- Thread starter TEXAN
- Start date
darkblu and Vysez,
thanks for the info. I'm going to dig my old DC out, grab a coders cable and get cracking sometime next month when things quieten down a bit. I sure the learning curve will be lovely and steep!
BBAs are stupidly expensive on ebay, and the only people selling them say they'll ship to the US only. Might look into making a USB cable if I get into this and it's not just a passing curiosity!
I think looking to Naomi 2 as a design for a DC launched in 2000 is a pretty bad idea (not directing this particularly at you, just this is the most suitable point to bring this up!). As I think I've said before in one of these threads, if Sega were building the DC for a 2000 release they've *wouldn't* be using parts that only exist because they were designed for the 1998 DC/Naomi combo (Naomi 2 was designed to utilize, as far as possible, parts and memory that were already being mass produced and mass purchased for the DC).
For a clean slate in 2000 (as we're comparing N2 against GS+EE) you wouldn't pick a 100 mHz clx and a single 200mhz SH4. This technology is only good as an indicator of what would have been available.
This is certainly supported by the little you can read on the internet about overclocked DCs! A modest overclock of the CPU to 240mHz is reported to remove the slowdown from games such as Shenmue and ... can't remember off the top of my head, sorry!
I know Sega got burned by the Saturn, and were looking to keep DC costs down for a low launch price, but I always though that a second CPU (perhaps another SH4, perhaps something else) and the Naomi's memory configuration (maybe without al the audio ram) would have given the DC better legs to compete against the PS2 and made arcade conversion more impressive and easier. As it turns out, the modem was an expensive addition to a cheap system with questionable sales benefits. They could have saved some cost by ripping that out for a start ...
thanks for the info. I'm going to dig my old DC out, grab a coders cable and get cracking sometime next month when things quieten down a bit. I sure the learning curve will be lovely and steep!
BBAs are stupidly expensive on ebay, and the only people selling them say they'll ship to the US only. Might look into making a USB cable if I get into this and it's not just a passing curiosity!
Crazyace said:
I think looking to Naomi 2 as a design for a DC launched in 2000 is a pretty bad idea (not directing this particularly at you, just this is the most suitable point to bring this up!). As I think I've said before in one of these threads, if Sega were building the DC for a 2000 release they've *wouldn't* be using parts that only exist because they were designed for the 1998 DC/Naomi combo (Naomi 2 was designed to utilize, as far as possible, parts and memory that were already being mass produced and mass purchased for the DC).
For a clean slate in 2000 (as we're comparing N2 against GS+EE) you wouldn't pick a 100 mHz clx and a single 200mhz SH4. This technology is only good as an indicator of what would have been available.
Crazyace said:
This is certainly supported by the little you can read on the internet about overclocked DCs! A modest overclock of the CPU to 240mHz is reported to remove the slowdown from games such as Shenmue and ... can't remember off the top of my head, sorry!
I know Sega got burned by the Saturn, and were looking to keep DC costs down for a low launch price, but I always though that a second CPU (perhaps another SH4, perhaps something else) and the Naomi's memory configuration (maybe without al the audio ram) would have given the DC better legs to compete against the PS2 and made arcade conversion more impressive and easier. As it turns out, the modem was an expensive addition to a cheap system with questionable sales benefits. They could have saved some cost by ripping that out for a start ...
Well i don't know what they would use in 2000 for a cpu . However they could have used a kyro . IT was 12m tranistors . was a 2x2 at 115mhz which would have been more than twice as fast as the dc part. It would have also had more advanced features . They most likely could have doubled the ram for it also as the sdr ram it used was dirt cheap in 2000 .
As a correction on above i don't see how the clx would be 15m tranistors if the kyro was only 12 . I can't find the chip or the pc version on the 3d tables on the site however .
A DC launched in 2000 would have used either the 300Mhz or the 350Mhz SH-5.
For graphics it would have utilised a version of the Kyro 2.
Total system memory probably would have been 32mb UMA, as the PowerVR architecture suits a unified memory system.
And ofcourse it would have released with BB adapter in place of the 56k modem and also a 4x DVD drive.
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If however they decided not to release the system in 2000 and release alongside the XBox & GC then these are the parts that I think the system would have utilised -
A DC launched in 2001 would have used a 500Mhz SH-5 which was available at the time.
For graphics it would have used the canceled Kyro 3.
- 250Mhz
- 4X1 Pixel Pipelines
- Onboard T&L
- Pixel Shader 1.0 and Vertex Shader 1.0
- 1 GPixels/1Gtexels (4GPixels/4Gtexels - 4x overdraw) fillrate
http://www.segatech.com/powervr/kyro3/
Total system memory probably would have been 64mb UMA.
And ofcourse it would have released with BB adapter and an 8x DVD drive and probably a 10-20GB HDD.
For graphics it would have utilised a version of the Kyro 2.
Total system memory probably would have been 32mb UMA, as the PowerVR architecture suits a unified memory system.
And ofcourse it would have released with BB adapter in place of the 56k modem and also a 4x DVD drive.
--------------------------------
If however they decided not to release the system in 2000 and release alongside the XBox & GC then these are the parts that I think the system would have utilised -
A DC launched in 2001 would have used a 500Mhz SH-5 which was available at the time.
For graphics it would have used the canceled Kyro 3.
- 250Mhz
- 4X1 Pixel Pipelines
- Onboard T&L
- Pixel Shader 1.0 and Vertex Shader 1.0
- 1 GPixels/1Gtexels (4GPixels/4Gtexels - 4x overdraw) fillrate
http://www.segatech.com/powervr/kyro3/
Total system memory probably would have been 64mb UMA.
And ofcourse it would have released with BB adapter and an 8x DVD drive and probably a 10-20GB HDD.
Equalizing costs, Dreamcast would have a lot more SDR DRAM than PS2's DDR, which was the most expensive brand of the most expensive type.
Crazyace:
Crazyace:
DC's display memory didn't add to its processor cost like GS's eDRAM. The costs to Sony are already accounted for in the comparison as PS2 performance benefits.
Evil_Cloud
Veteran
Li Mu Bai said:
It would indeed be interesting to see if the market is able to 'support' four consoles at the same time. There were many Dreamcast titles under development, so if the financial backing would have been there for Sega (CSK), all these 'cancelled' titles combined with a lower Dreamcast price and increased hardware performance could've carried sales well into 2003 or so.
What if for example Samsung or Panasonic were to enter the market in some way? Certainly these companies would face similar problems as Microsoft had with gaining more marketshare.
Li Mu Bai said:
Your forgeting that the dc would have hit the magical 100$ and below point before the xbox and gamecube came out . Which if it still got games for it would have sold like hot cakes to many familys that couldn't afford a 300$ system. IT would also have had a very large library by then. I see no reason why it couldn't have sold another 10m units in 2-3 more years at 100$ or under .
As for the spoon well he made it to the texas / mexico boarder before the man caught up to him and killed him
Well, we will never find out....If we only had PS2 and Gamecube, then DC would have survived, but with giant company like MS coming up with its own console, Sega really lost its place in the market. I think MS's entrance of the market cemented Sega's decision to end hardware business for good.
As for the 4-console market, I think it is only possible in theory..In reality, developers doesn't seem to like support more than 2 consoles(PS2 and Xbox)...heck, 3-console market was possible because 3rd player was Nintendo...if there is a company which can survive with only 1st party games, it is Nintendo.
As for the 4-console market, I think it is only possible in theory..In reality, developers doesn't seem to like support more than 2 consoles(PS2 and Xbox)...heck, 3-console market was possible because 3rd player was Nintendo...if there is a company which can survive with only 1st party games, it is Nintendo.
zidane1strife said:
Considering Sega's support for the Xbox gave it a certain legitimacy, I think Gamecube would have taken 2nd only eventually surpassing DC, with DC and Xbox fighting it out in last.
And worldwide overall, and Europe too I believe.
If you want to focus on individual areas, I believe N64 and PSX were close to dead even in America for most of last gen(until like the last year or two when the PSOne reinvigorated PSX as a low cost console while the n64 pretty much faded away).(genesis also got pushed as a low cost system which the snes never really had, thanks to sega's like 4 different models plus majesco's rerelease....I think SNES actually had games released longer though, up till 1998, but then again Genesis had Virtua fighter 2 released on it, so who knows how long it had games for)
Anyhow, if you're talking about the impact a system had on America and not just sales, I'd say Genesis more strongly defined its generation...I'm not sure if I can say n64 or psx more strongly defined its generation though...I guess I'd give it to PSX, but the western/PC/multiplayer influence of the n64 has remained quite strong and practically expected by now, but so has the 'trendiness' the PSX and its games offered.(RPGs I think have taken a hit though)