Explosive 9/11 allegations against the Saudi's

Im not suprised that the Saudie gov. has been in bed with AQ and others just to keep themselves in power. Im curious as to what they plan on doing now that it will be on the open.

Finally, the details of Zubaydah's drug-induced confessions might bring on charges that the U.S. is using torture on terrorism suspects. According to Posner, the Administration decided shortly after 9/11 to permit the use of Sodium Pentothal on prisoners. The Administration, he writes, "privately believes that the Supreme Court has implicitly approved using such drugs in matters where public safety is at risk," citing a 1963 opinion.
It seems amazing that we have to worry about claims of torture when these people want/plan/dream of killing thousands (if not more) americans.

later,
 
well not all of us are fond of moral relativism.


but as for the topic, it rather figures. although it is a damn shame we have such a mess going on in Iraq right now or we would be in a better position to deal with this situation.
 
That the saudi regime is unpopular and resorts to this to stay in power isnt surprising. I think its more telling of the possible power of influence the fundamentalists in al quaeda weild among the populace that they need to be bought off even at such a late date...

Reforming Saudi Arabia into some form of a democracy as they are trying to do in Iraq may be as important long term.
 
The white house had almost 30 pages of material stricken from the congressional 9/11 report that would have implicated the Saudis, thus damaging relations with a strong ally, read: oil imports.

This is nothing new.
 
Or it could simply be seen as a frame-up.

It looks like Al-Qeada is the town bike of the middle east, everyone (with oil) has had a ride heh.
 
kyleb said:
although it is a damn shame we have such a mess going on in Iraq right now or we would be in a better position to deal with this situation.

One of the primary reasons to go to war with Iraq (although of course not a publicly stated one) was to lessen America's political dependence on Saudi Arabia. Already we have removed the constant geopolitical threat Saddam posed to Saudi Arabia, which had kept tens of thousands of US troops based on Saudi Arabia ever since the first Gulf War. (Ending their presence there, let's not forget, was the reason for which Osama bin Laden and Al Qaeda took up arms against the US in the first place.) As a result we have already redeployed our forces out of SA.

As Iraq's oil industry is rebuilt and modernized, and output rises to what their oil reserves can naturally support (which will take several years), Saudi Arabia's ability to control oil prices and punatively influence the world's economy will lessen correspondingly, and we'll have even less reason to kowtow to their fascist, terrorist-supporting regime.

I've seen the argument made--and it's probably true--that we could take a much tougher line with the Saudis already and that their economic leverage over the West is overstated. But there's little doubt that our Middle East policy is targeted towards weaning ourselves (and Europe, although they seem less eager) from Saudi influence. Just because the administration covers for the Saudis in public doesn't mean they aren't moving against them in private. After all, who do you think leaked this story about Zubaydah's interrogation to Posner anyways?

Time Magazine said:
The stuff that is going to spark hot debate is Chapter 19, an account—based on Zubaydah's claims as told to Posner by "two government sources" who are unnamed but "in a position to know"—of what two countries allied to the U.S. did to build up al-Qaeda and what they knew before that September day... Posner told TIME he got the details of Zubaydah's interrogation and revelations from a U.S. official outside the cia at a "very senior Executive Branch level" whose name we would probably know if he told it to us. He did not. The second source, Posner said, was from the cia, and he gave what Posner viewed as general confirmation of the story but did not repeat the details.

The Bush administration leaked it. Contrary to popular belief, leaks are very rarely unauthorized or the work of rogue employees. And when the source is a "very senior" member of the executive branch--which is code for "Cabinet undersecretary or better" (the bit about "whose name we would probably know" is cutesy for "whose name any idiot would know")--it is nearly always authorized. If I had to guess I'd say the leak was from Wolfowitz, Rice, Rumsfeld or Cheney.

The Bush administration is very actively on a course to distance ourselves from Saudi Arabia and try to undermine the regime there. The war in Iraq was not an impediment or distraction from this, but a fundamental part of it. (One can obviously disagree that it was the right way to achieve this goal, but this is definitely one of the prime motivations behind the war.)

Of course we'd be making better progress toward that goal if things in Iraq were going more smoothly, but I doubt this was the point of your comment.
 
na, actually my point was that things would be going a lot smoother in Iraq if we had proved ourself by making better progress in Saudi Arabia first. doing it the other way around just seems backwards to me and as it stands i think we have our hands full with Iraq at the moment, and there is still the mess we are in with Afghanistan to deal with as well.
 
I think the Administration considers Saudi Arabia a lost cause. The popular strength of Wahabism there, combined with their relatively strict Islamic law, appears virtually impossible to overcome diplomatically and culturally. Iraq on the other hand is already a secular, fairly progressive Arab state, ripe for democracy and capitalism, of sorts, and all we had to do was forcibly remove their psychotic dictator. He even gave us enough of an excuse to do it. It was really a no-brainer.
 
fbg1 said:
I think the Administration considers Saudi Arabia a lost cause. The popular strength of Wahabism there, combined with their relatively strict Islamic law, appears virtually impossible to overcome diplomatically and culturally. Iraq on the other hand is already a secular, fairly progressive Arab state, ripe for democracy and capitalism, of sorts, and all we had to do was forcibly remove their psychotic dictator. He even gave us enough of an excuse to do it. It was really a no-brainer.

Shame its turning into a fundamentalist state then ;)
 
Saudi Arabia is largely a closed society and devising a long term solution to arrive at some sort of democracy wont be easy. The only thing we've done there is prop up the monarchy.

I think it would be wise to move them slowly to some sort of democracy like Jordan. But I think its quite a bit early to throw in the towel (and I suppose assume war is the only eventual option?...) when we havent really done anything in terms of diplomacy or cultural openings ect with regards to saudi arabia yet...
 
I listened to this author on either Fox or CNN this morning (I click trying to find somebody who's not in commercial) and I say its pretty convinient that the people he's charging with being conspirators are all dead now.

It sounds a bit like building a conspiracy to fit the facts. Though it does make a good spy novel, I'm not sure if he's not just connecting dots that are unrelated.
 
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