Would a PS Vita HD refresh work?

You have to know that we have a living floor with office and kitchen, and then the sleeping floor with the bathroom is below it. :) (most houses over here work the other way around, but ours is placed along a street where a train/tram used to go, so the street is about one floor up from our back garden)
 
Technically, the 3G version has a phone number and can receive SMS (arrives in operator messages) and there are websites with which you can send them. ;)

But yeah, they could definitely consider getting a whatsapp like client on there. Right now, it does have skype, but not the chat features, so there seem to be some business/technical considerations going on on that end.

I've used Skype a few times on my 3G as an emergency phone, and that worked quite well (also together with my iPad as a video baby-sit device once or twice, so I could make sure my son wasn't drowning in the bathtub and could talk to him while upstairs :D).

In my household, my son and wife usually play with the iPad while I game on Playstation. My son use the Playstation once in a while. His favorites are EyePet, SingStar, BeatSketcher, LBP 2, Modnation Racer, Ni no Kuni and SoundShapes.

I wish there was a way to cross-play an iOS game on Vita. In that sense, having a store section for iOS/Android games would be good. I won't feel left out playing Demon's Souls. Loved Plants vs Zombies for Vita too.

Having WhatsApp will allow me to interact with cellphone users, which is great. But Sony should have extended features there to differentiate, like integrating it with in-game messaging or even PS Home for Vita.

They should revamp their location apps too (Maps, Near, 4Square) to integrate with games.

Edit: I would also challenge the limit of portable gaming to see if Vita could Gaikai games to iOS/Android devices over WiFi when it's plugged into a power source.

It may be interesting to groom Vita to work with kits like Lego, Arduino and Rasberry Pi too. Vita has a great set of sensors, input schemes and a nice display.
 
I suspect Sony will keep Vita focused on the core gamers for a long time. These people may pay slightly more $$$ and more consistently for a focused gaming experience. If they want to target other users with Vita, it may be easier to reuse Vita guts in a mainstream form factor (like a tablet).
Well if you mean by core hardcore, it is not like they have choice, the average gamer won't buy a device at this price (same for games). I insist that the use of core hardcore and casual without more details means nothing, everybody that play usually play the same games as the hardcore, the biggest group in "social" gamers are +45 year old women.
The average gamer won't pay much nor care much for super advanced functionality, they are likely to have a tablet for that (related to that is the perceived value of handled), I do not think that that is the issue.
The issue is that what you describe here and below is nothing more than "business as usual" (from the handled manufacturers pov), clearly tablets and phones sales are affecting that market, but at the same time the reaction of the manufacturers is a bit staggering (aka imo no reaction to the most disruptive event in the history of handled consoles).
Whereas I don't have that much faith in Sony execs, I wonder to which extend the new management would have green light the project (or it could have too late to abort), the design of the ps4 (ram aside but we are to find out soon how that affect the system cost) relies pretty much on off the shelves blocks. For the PS Vita is pretty clear that Sony over did it, tweaking, to be abandoned, A9 cores, to be abandoned GPU, going with a non UMA design, etc.
By the way I don't think that Vita hardware will be re-purposed for a tablet, it is already no longer good enough. Putting aside proprietary CPU and Sony as none (Shift and Krait), any competitive tablet onward will be powered by A15/A7 combo, equivalent of better GPU, lot more RAM and faster (I'm not sure about the type of RAM the PSV used, wiki and Sony website did not give much info on the overall hardware). Shrinking the PSV to 28nm will still get you on the wrong that of the technology curve.

To compete on a market under unprecedented pressure Sony should have cut down R&D costs and integrate existing IP without over spending on minor tweaks, time line were wrong with 28nm just behind the corner (and Sony had no significant pressure, they did not need to rush the product).
Another issue is some of the components they use are too expansive and imo useless wrt system main use, namely the fancy screen, it is really good actually way too good, from the resolution to the cost, to the point that the system can't push enough pixels to render at that resolution with a level of detail you would expect from a gaming device. But that is an issue with Sony sometime being a costumer for Sony, not always for the best. Anyway the screen is over specced, at that price those who buy have a healthy budget and living standard, it shows in this very topic, both you and Arwin have tablets and not cheap one, Ipads. The relevance of the Vita as a media (or more social) device is an "aside", it won't sell devices.

Back to that "core" thing, looking at Sony portfolio of IP, really rich focusing on hardcore with a beefy budget is also another mistake, they have the IPs to address a lot of the market from kids to adults, they won't reach kids (or your average parents) with a 250$ and 50$ games.

It is barely disputable that the business model for handled needed to evolve and it is pretty clear that neither Nintendo (though you would expect that much from them) and Sony did not do their homework properly.

It looks like Sony will have to build Vita's value over time; like how they built up PS3's library painstakingly for the past few years. PS+ helps to increase Vita's value and utility but it won't differentiate Vita. Besides the exclusive Vita games, they will need to find an identity for Vita. e.g., If it's supposed to be the best Gaikai client, then they may want to run Gaikai server on Macs and PCs as well (so Vita can be used "everywhere", even beyond pure gaming). If they want Vita to be cutting edge, then it better work with Occulus Rift and other VR headsets. If Vita want to be the king of mobile gaming devices, then it should work with iOS and Android games as well (perhaps as their local server even). So on and so forth.

At that point, hopefully they have lowered the BOM cost enough to go for a sustainable and substantial (enough) price drop.
Building value over time will costs them a lot of money as they need a lower price to built a significant user base, without user base it is mostly a game of subsidizing either software or hardware /losing money.
I don't see the point of Occulus rift /vr sets wrt to vita, at all.
Anyway Vita won't be the king of mobile gaming, that is pretty clear at this point, and it should not make Sony any significant amount of money either (with the rebates this fall I actually wonder if Sony is already loosing some money).
I would not expect the PS4 to have a significant impact on the psv either (as I think those that would go for such an expanse have mostly already does so).
Either way to get price down Sony will need a shrink (costly reimplementing IP no longer in use on 28 process), a lesser screen, etc.
Imo they will be there quiet too late, as without (imo and my opinion only obviously) a proper offering on that market (both nintendo and Sony) the market shrink faster than it should / loose relevance faster than it should.

Anyway, I'm quiet disappointed by lot of the hardware gamers gets of late from the 3ds, to WiiU to the PSV. I know that we (gamers) could have a better offering but years of subsidizing have sort of lock down the market along with the fact that some segment are not that profitable either... well I'm not happy with the offering "overall", even the HD twin by design still have to reach really low price that is after 6/7 years on the markets... The whole thing is more and more tedious to me.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
....not a Vita2 but a doubled down Vita....a 6.4" 1080p screen, unibody aluminium. quad core cpu and gpu from the A15/544MP8 chips, 1GB ram, 256mb vram...plays Vita games in HD? To sell side by side with the more kids friendly original Vita?

TBH i think Vita 5" 540p screen is tad small for asymmetric PS4 gaming ...and a tad low PPI resy besides the 720/1080 smartphones.....

I think Sony can try to aim for the ...upper market with VitaHD...

http://goo.gl/bWqBr Digital foundry has some interesting interview. Some facts:


1, Vita GPU now works with a "lowered" frequency.

2, Vita has much better low-level optimization compared with iOS and Android devices.



The questions are:

1, How much frequency does the GPU operate at? And how much does they lower? Since GPU power is saved for longer battery life, I think at least 100~200 MHz is lowered? So what is the maximum frequency of Vita's GPU?


2, What about the hardware efficiency of a smartphone? We have heard some developers said that PS3/360 has almost 2 times of hardware efficiency of PCs. Than what about Vita vs. smartphones? Does vita still have 2x efficiency of ios/android devices?
 
liolio said:

Sony have always focused on the same type of gamers. I don't know if it make sense to sell a dedicated gaming device for non-gamers or casual gamers. They chose specifically to address the same market. It is different from Nintendo's and Apple's more mass market target from the get-go.

Starting from the PS3/PS+ user base is just low hanging fruits, but they should extend to 360 and PC gamers. In this sense, PS4/Gaikai is a natural next step.

The issue with Vita is not because its spec, hence cost, is too high compared to Nintendo devices. The issue is its concept is not far ahead enough to differentiate. It lacks a distinct identity and purpose. If they simply do a low cost device, it would be like a PSP or DS.

The sales number you see now is a result of that. Other than gamers who bought and realized its potential, no one else knew what to do with it.


As for Vita specs not good enough for tablets, it doesn't really matter as long as it's good enough for the intended purpose and contents. It is a dedicated device. But an improved battery life would be good. Occulus Rift, VR goggles, Arduino, etc. are just technologies and platforms. It is natural that you can't/don't see the benefits at this point. To make Vita thrive on them, it would mean Sony have to craft unique user contents and experiences on top of these technologies. If it's a future trend for gaming, it may start small amongst one of these early tech. They complement Sony's high tech, and indie friendly image.

I made a small hardware game from Arduino last week. It will be great if I can control it from a Vita instead of MacBook Air. It is sort of like a hardware LBP. It will be even more awesome with 3D printing.

They can charge a premium for these more far out ideas to compensate for the smaller base. Vita can play cheap games for regular gamers anyway. PS+ covers that.

It will help boost PS4 usefulness too.
 
http://goo.gl/bWqBr Digital foundry has some interesting interview. Some facts:


1, Vita GPU now works with a "lowered" frequency.

2, Vita has much better low-level optimization compared with iOS and Android devices.



The questions are:

1, How much frequency does the GPU operate at? And how much does they lower? Since GPU power is saved for longer battery life, I think at least 100~200 MHz is lowered? So what is the maximum frequency of Vita's GPU?


2, What about the hardware efficiency of a smartphone? We have heard some developers said that PS3/360 has almost 2 times of hardware efficiency of PCs. Than what about Vita vs. smartphones? Does vita still have 2x efficiency of ios/android devices?

Yes, I like that DF article. But it will be hard to fight that "not powerful enough" perception.

They should just prove it with assorted contents.
 
2, What about the hardware efficiency of a smartphone? We have heard some developers said that PS3/360 has almost 2 times of hardware efficiency of PCs. Than what about Vita vs. smartphones? Does vita still have 2x efficiency of ios/android devices?
The post of Andrew Lauritzen on the improvements that came with directx 11 (that if like Dice you pass on previous API) comes to my mind.
Seems like people in a pretty good position to know what they are speaking about hint at a change on that matter. Now where are the OS and API and drivers is another matter but the playing field could change, I'm not sure what MSFT is doing wrt Windows 8 RT API by the way.

@Patsu, I see your point but think you are wrong, and I'm still not sure who you are speaking about when you speak of "casual gamers", as for non gamers it is not exactly the target I'm speaking about (quiet the contrary), not too mention that they are out of Sony reach, they need a proper OS and Tablets are good enough for them /even MSFT may found out that they are late too the game.
 
The post of Andrew Lauritzen on the improvements that came with directx 11 (that if like Dice you pass on previous API) comes to my mind.
Seems like people in a pretty good position to know what they are speaking about hint at a change on that matter. Now where are the OS and API and drivers is another matter but the playing field could change, I'm not sure what MSFT is doing wrt Windows 8 RT API by the way.

@Patsu, I see your point but think you are wrong, and I'm still not sure who you are speaking about when you speak of "casual gamers", as for non gamers it is not exactly the target I'm speaking about (quiet the contrary), not too mention that they are out of Sony reach, they need a proper OS and Tablets are good enough for them /even MSFT may found out that they are late too the game.

In my view...

Casual gamers are people who don't generally like complex, involving games. It's people like my wife and son. They may however spend more time gaming than me. But I think they don't necessarily pay for games. All my friends refuse to cough up $$$ to buy the premium goodies even though it helps them waste less time. They simply move on to another free, addictive game.

Among these people, there will also be the gamers who pay hundreds every month to get to the top of the ladder in the very same game. These are the core gamers. They have moved beyond the casual need to pass time. They may have different taste though.



As for Windows RT and late to tablet party, the road is still very long. There is always an opportunity to specialize. This is the basis of marketing. I wouldn't worry too much. It's an area where the press and analysts and general consumers will catch on slowly.


The post of Andrew Lauritzen on the improvements that came with directx 11 (that if like Dice you pass on previous API) comes to my mind.
Seems like people in a pretty good position to know what they are speaking about hint at a change on that matter. Now where are the OS and API and drivers is another matter but the playing field could change, I'm not sure what MSFT is doing wrt Windows 8 RT API by the way.

The vendors can always dual boot or setup gaming specific environment to be more efficient. OTOH, it is also not difficult for a dedicated device to add Android support later (if they can sell the units at a profit).

The dedicated devices will still choose gaming when there is a contention at any level.

Vita should be charged with the mission of discovering upcoming mobile gaming trends. Social gaming is the current hotness but it won't be the only one.
 
In my view...

Casual gamers are people who don't generally like a complex, involving games. It's people like my wife and son. They may however spend more time gaming than me. But I think they don't necessarily pay for games. All my friends refuse to cough up $$$ to buy the premium goodies even though it helps them waste less time. They simply move on to another free, addictive games.
Now we speak :)
I don't think that those people are a proper target either for handled, the point is there 150 millions PS360 out there (+PC gamers... I mean those that pay lol), you may call them core gamers, the issue is a lot of them are more like me than hardcore gamers and I don't play social games, I won't spend tenth of hours a week and I buy a couples of games a years. I think that the issue is to confuse core and hardcore, hardcore can't sustain the market (mobile or not) to some extend even profitable enterprises like steam benefit from the console realm and funding from the core (not hardcore).
So as we are clearing the use of the words that describes how the market is constituted, it is clear that Sony doesn't aimed at core but hardcore gamers, it is more sensible than in the home gaming realm as whereas we speak of lesser game, mobile devices offer an alternative for occasional, on go (in a corner of house being restroom) gaming.

That main segment of the gaming crown, ie the core gamers not read as hardcore, is imo not presented with compliant hardware, the 3DS... well I won't develop but my wife is like your and she loves for example geometry can you play geometry wars on the 3ds=>no, no second analog stick, for real core (again not hardcore) gamer I think that the capability of the system are too low (on top of out of date input). That let Sony and imo Sony did not try to address or define how they could get part of that crown to more massively adopt the product:
usually it is not rocket science, they needed cheaper systems and games, out gunning the 3ds and meeting "core" requirements @150$ was doable, again there tablet with pretty neat 2000x1500 ISP (10") screen, comparable hardware and 2GB that go on sale for 225$.
Then wrt to the price of the game is a matter of discussing with editors and scaling contents, and to somehow port what is done in the home console/pc realm to those devices (DLC, attempt of not crippling monetizations), ie that is what trying to save that niche should be.

The business as usual approach... It will be clear enough in a couple of years, I'm patient enough ;)
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Are you worried about core gamer population size ? It's a moving target depending on what the vendors do.

Sony will use a better process if it's justified. They should tackle the customer facing issues first. Technology-wise, Vita is adequate or more than good enough.

EDIT: Any Arduino or MakeyMakey people here ?
 
1, Vita GPU now works with a "lowered" frequency.

He said the dev team decided to lower the GPU frequency, not that it's locked in the firmware.

However, I've read the Cortex A9s can be set to a maximum of 2GHz (not sure if this is attainable with all cores enabled) but are often used at 800MHz to 1GHz.
Likewise, the SGX543MP4+ can be set to a maximum of 400MHz but is usually set at 200MHz.
I also read that the 400MHz GPU speed can only be attained if the WiFi is off, which would put many limitations in its usage.


I guess that with later hardware revisions the Vita could gain a much larger battery life (28nm shrink, >3000mAh battery).
By then, maybe the developers will risk with higher clock speeds for the GPU and CPU, but it will make our current, 1st-gen Vitas get a gaming battery life of 2 hours.

This is something that already happened with the PSP, though. Until the PSP2000 released, the developers weren't allowed to set the MIPS cores at over 266MHz, though they were designed for 333MHz. Playing a late 3D PSP title in a PSP1000 would result in a pretty dismal battery life, though.




EDIT: Any Arduino or MakeyMakey people here ?

Raspberry Pi doesn't count? :p
 
Raspberry Pi count too. Friends use it as cheap XBMC box. ^_^

He said the dev team decided to lower the GPU frequency, not that it's locked in the firmware.

However, I've read the Cortex A9s can be set to a maximum of 2GHz (not sure if this is attainable with all cores enabled) but are often used at 800MHz to 1GHz.
Likewise, the SGX543MP4+ can be set to a maximum of 400MHz but is usually set at 200MHz.
I also read that the 400MHz GPU speed can only be attained if the WiFi is off, which would put many limitations in its usage.


I guess that with later hardware revisions the Vita could gain a much larger battery life (28nm shrink, >3000mAh battery).
By then, maybe the developers will risk with higher clock speeds for the GPU and CPU, but it will make our current, 1st-gen Vitas get a gaming battery life of 2 hours.

This is something that already happened with the PSP, though. Until the PSP2000 released, the developers weren't allowed to set the MIPS cores at over 266MHz, though they were designed for 333MHz. Playing a late 3D PSP title in a PSP1000 would result in a pretty dismal battery life, though.

Yap, I think battery life is a more limiting factor than computing power. It compromises the user experiences. Hope they put in a power mode (e.g., keep network always up) when the unit is plugged into the socket.
 
I'm thinking the PS Vita isn't doing that great because developers basically have to make HD-quality games as if they were on the PS3 and 360. Many Japanese developers instead just worked on the PSP and DS (and now 3DS) to try and avoid the inevitable. The games are cheap, the profit is good, and game mechanics don't have to be overly complex. Kind of like how going from the PS2->PS3, I feel most Japanese developers stumbled and many don't want to repeat that process.

My 2 cents.
 
I don't mind a good PSP game on Vita. It seems to consume less battery than full blown Vita games. ^_^
Persona PSP was my most played game on Vita. I liked Valkyria Chronicles 2 on Vita too.

However, sooner or later, they will have to create HD assets for iOS and Android version anyways.
 
He said the dev team decided to lower the GPU frequency, not that it's locked in the firmware.

However, I've read the Cortex A9s can be set to a maximum of 2GHz (not sure if this is attainable with all cores enabled) but are often used at 800MHz to 1GHz.
Likewise, the SGX543MP4+ can be set to a maximum of 400MHz but is usually set at 200MHz.
I also read that the 400MHz GPU speed can only be attained if the WiFi is off, which would put many limitations in its usage.


I guess that with later hardware revisions the Vita could gain a much larger battery life (28nm shrink, >3000mAh battery).
By then, maybe the developers will risk with higher clock speeds for the GPU and CPU, but it will make our current, 1st-gen Vitas get a gaming battery life of 2 hours.

This is something that already happened with the PSP, though. Until the PSP2000 released, the developers weren't allowed to set the MIPS cores at over 266MHz, though they were designed for 333MHz. Playing a late 3D PSP title in a PSP1000 would result in a pretty dismal battery life, though.






Raspberry Pi doesn't count? :p

Developers just mentioned GPU frequency. I think only GPU frequency is adjustable, not CPU frequency (because it already eats too much power?).

However if SGX543 MP4+ on PSVITA can operate at 400 MHz then the GPU should be as powerful as Galaxy S4 (with Exynos Octa.-SGX 544 mp3). Not to mention that Vita has 1/4 native resolution of high-end smartphones and much better optimization. So in 1~2 years game graphic of Vita should still be competitive with top android phones?
 
Not just the clock. Read somewhere that Sony optimized the throughput/bandwidth too. Since it has a smaller screen and lower DPI, the beefy bandwidth may be good for rendering. I think the limiting factors are the battery life and heat.
 
I've never heard of Vitas overheating because of their SoCs.

There are cases of defective batteries heating up the handheld when charging, but nothing about it heating out of other components.

Maybe the Vita can still [place your secret sauce & untapped potential conspiracy here]

heh
 
The only thing the Vita needs is a revision. Cost reduction to drive down the price.

Price is everything right now. Kids and younger gamers are the demographic that dominate portable gaming, and the Vita is currently too expensive a device in all territories to compete.

Once Sony gets the price down to about £100-150 the portable can do wonders sales-wise. Let's just hope that that doesn't happen so late that the platform would have lost all of its mindshare.

The Vita is currently a fantastic device, and more people would see that if the price of admission was much lower.

I'm personally waiting for the PS Vita-slim before I jump in. I just hope the device isn't killed off before that ever comes about.

Thankfully however the recent Japanese pricedrop has generated respectable Japanese sales. If that can result in more quirky jrpgs and japanese games then the platform may just live and may even havea future. I really hope SCEJ is pushing this.

Tbh though, if SCEJ and Pyramid announce a Patapon Vita, I'll go out and pick up a Vita like tomorrow. (That sh!t is my portable crack)
 
I've never heard of Vitas overheating because of their SoCs.

There are cases of defective batteries heating up the handheld when charging, but nothing about it heating out of other components.

Maybe the Vita can still [place your secret sauce & untapped potential conspiracy here]

heh

The developers throttle the h/w to prevent battery drain and overheating. Some devs also turn off the network for SP titles.
 
The only thing the Vita needs is a revision. Cost reduction to drive down the price.

Price is everything right now. Kids and younger gamers are the demographic that dominate portable gaming, and the Vita is currently too expensive a device in all territories to compete.

Once Sony gets the price down to about £100-150 the portable can do wonders sales-wise. Let's just hope that that doesn't happen so late that the platform would have lost all of its mindshare.

The Vita is currently a fantastic device, and more people would see that if the price of admission was much lower.

I'm personally waiting for the PS Vita-slim before I jump in. I just hope the device isn't killed off before that ever comes about.

Thankfully however the recent Japanese pricedrop has generated respectable Japanese sales. If that can result in more quirky jrpgs and japanese games then the platform may just live and may even havea future. I really hope SCEJ is pushing this.

Tbh though, if SCEJ and Pyramid announce a Patapon Vita, I'll go out and pick up a Vita like tomorrow. (That sh!t is my portable crack)

Yes, price drop will boost volume, but to generate a high, sustainable volume, Sony will need to tighten more than just pricing alone.

Nintendo may react if Sony try to target the same user base.
 
Back
Top