It seems to be running on emulation on PC. Have they ported it over to the DC though?
"Yes, but how many polygons?" An artist blog entry with interesting numbers
- Thread starter Farid
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Yes, he's got it running on DC. Look at tge other vids
There is only one video that says real hardware test and that's off screen. The rest I m not sure which are real hardware and which arent
I suppose you could look or ask in the comments
. He says it's real hardware elsewhere, thoughCan't say I agree about swapping the modem, but don't forget about the accumulation buffer that could have been used to great effects :
Exactly. The DC was plenty powerful, and by 2001 we were beginning to see what it could truly do, but alas, things weren't meant to be. Doa2 apparently was being reserved with all that engine could do.
Cloofoofoo
Newcomer
This is the video that is real time on an actual dc. Features stages from dead or alive dimensions from 3ds and one from shenmue 2. That's interesting since dimensions stages tend to be slightly higher on average from doa2 stages. And we'll shenmue 2 stages tend to be even higher .( Up to double) . Things could look even better they applied vertex color to bake in lighting.
With all this extra stuff you're doing to the game and sticking to 60fps, what do you think stopped team ninja from going all out?
EsppiraK
Newcomer
I am pretry sure they were being conservative, and wanted ton ensure the BEST framerate possiible, also DOA 2 relesed in 1999 so It began production even earlier, maybe they were'nt familiar with the tools or didn't know the quirks that you can take advantage off. For example, my fake bloom on the Demons Church IS achieved by overlaping transparencies using the TSP no one ever did that on a comercial Game afaik.
I also added statues to the opera stage about 5000+ polys to the stages and the console doesn't even sweat.
What i've noticed is that transparencies hurt performance more than the increased polycount.
Yeah, i was gonna say the transparencies should definitely be a problem, but so far, so good! I noticed the statues, i was gonna ask. Thanks for telling me! Man, team ninja was the crew to look at that generation. I wish itagaki liked DC the way he liked xbox, the things they could have done with that engine!
Cloofoofoo
Newcomer
Actually that was done before , a handful of games overlapped blended quads . Best example I remember was skies of arcadia in the Opening scenes , they overlapped a quad with varying degrees transparency per each vertex to give it a soft light coming from an angle but it wasn't the only time used on dc. Overworks again used that same effect on the intro stages of Shinobi 2002 ps2, so it's a pretty simple but effective technique.
The guy who did soul calibur 2 test for dc mentioned that 60 fps dc is more delicate performance wise than it is at 30 fps. Also mentioned at 30 fps layered transparencies become negligible to impact performance. At 30 fps you can have scenes that range up 60k polygons per frame and 2 to 4 layers of transparent quad with almost no performance cost with them on or off. So imagine if they had been less 60 fps obsessed and more detail oriented at 30 fps since it has more performance legroom at that rate.
Fake bloom skies of arcadia
EsppiraK
Newcomer
Actually Skies of Arcadia IS the only retail Game that I am aware of that uses real bloom in selected scenes ( not the screenshot you posted)Actually that was done before , a handful of games overlapped blended quads . Best example I remember was skies of arcadia in the Opening scenes , they overlapped a quad with varying degrees transparency per each vertex to give it a soft light coming from an angle but it wasn't the only time used on dc. Overworks again used that same effect on the intro stages of Shinobi 2002 ps2, so it's a pretty simple but effective technique.
The guy who did soul calibur 2 test for dc mentioned that 60 fps dc is more delicate performance wise than it is at 30 fps. Also mentioned at 30 fps layered transparencies become negligible to impact performance. At 30 fps you can have scenes that range up 60k polygons per frame and 2 to 4 layers of transparent quad with almost no performance cost with them on or off. So imagine if they had been less 60 fps obsessed and more detail oriented at 30 fps since it has more performance legroom at that rate.
Fake bloom skies of arcadia
Just makes you curious how much untapped potential was there.
DOA2 vanilla and @EsppiraK 's work are a special demonstration of the DC's abilities.
Even Sega's most attempts didn't demonstrate DC's polygon abilities, fluidity and lighting effects in such a manner. Most DC games were kind of rough. Even Soul Calibur was lackluster in geometry compared to DOA2.
It is a shame that we will never get to see what it would have been capable of, if devs had the luxury to show faith in it. Similar with the Sega Saturn.
DOA2 vanilla and @EsppiraK 's work are a special demonstration of the DC's abilities.
Even Sega's most attempts didn't demonstrate DC's polygon abilities, fluidity and lighting effects in such a manner. Most DC games were kind of rough. Even Soul Calibur was lackluster in geometry compared to DOA2.
It is a shame that we will never get to see what it would have been capable of, if devs had the luxury to show faith in it. Similar with the Sega Saturn.
Cloofoofoo
Newcomer
I know it uses actual but Iam just showing you the additive blended polygon over the whole is screen was done before on dc. It wasn't used alot but there's a few games that do it. Skies of arcadia mainly is the easiest one to quickly see it. It's pretty simple trick Iam surprised it wasn't used more. If you believe you can check emulator wireframes and use dxripper turn off texture u will see the colored vertex quad overlayed.
They used the same trick on Shinobi ps2 but that time it only covers the top
Cloofoofoo
Newcomer
What makes it more surprising is that doa2 is built on top on segas on tools naomilib . Fundamentally it uses same tech as crazy taxi 1/ 2 , fighting vipers 2, Sega sports jam , Virtua tennis 1 and 2 , 18 wheeler and so on. So it's not completely custom but yet they managed a hell a lot more than Sega did. Makes you wonder what changes they made under the hood or perhaps Sega themselves didn't understand the extent of their own tools.
Appaloosa is another studio that seemed to have a strong command of the DC HW. The school of fish is particularly impressive and what I assume to be a good demonstration of CPU based particle effects.
The animations of the mermaid are sophisticated and simply beautiful. Lots of transparencies, and effective use of environment mapping for caustics.
That's freakin amazing
EsppiraK
Newcomer
Where does this come from? Is It available anywhere?