Coronavirus Pandemic (COVID-19) (SARS-CoV-2) [2020]

[Albuquerque]

The main thing is the people who get flu shots but not Covid booster shots.

one is far more lethal and easier to catch.

Yup, I get it. We got both, for whatever that's worth, because it's all the same office visit.

The reality is public education only goes so far. COVID has been weaponized, not in the "Chinese lab" way but instead as a political lightning rod. The sad and unfortunate truth has already reared its ugly head for anyone who wants to see: the folks most predominantly killed by COVID are typically members of the political party who cast COVID as a political issue instead of a health issue. Which means the party who made their constituency believe COVID was about "taking away muh free-dumbs" are the same party who is receiving the majority share of COVID deaths. But how could they possibly have known?!?

Whether you believe COVID vaccinations are useful or not, everyone reading this post is allowed to make their own decision. However, decisions have consequences, and those consequences aren't only limited to just the singular person who decided...

 

[wco81]

May also be denial, on the part of some seniors, without being necessarily influenced politically.

Covid is a new existential threat to old age, so some people may be fatalistic.

 

[Albuquerque]

I guess it could be denial, but why? Elders get their RSV and flu shots, what's one more? Your regular doctor tells you "hey, this new thing going around is bad news for old folks like yourself. Make it easier and take one more vaccination, it's already covered by Medicaid / Medicare."

I don't have any data at all on this; my unfounded suspicion is those folks who are in denial likely have a very high venn-diagram overlap with those who affiliate themselves with a news source linked to the aforementioned political party.

 

[entity279]

However, decisions have consequences, and those consequences aren't only limited to just the singular person who decided...

What do you mean by "not only limited to just the singular person"?

 

[Shifty Geezer]

In my circles there's been a decent amount of covid illness but nothing more serious than a heavy cold. Actual case rates are low. I don't know how representative these numbers are now that testing is way down, but the rate shouldn't be affected too much so long as sample size is adequate, and testing has been slightly increasing over the months.





Certainly here in the UK, covid is seen as just another cold (I can't even be bothered to capitalise it now!) and it'll be hard to argue people into treating it more seriously, especially with everything else going on.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

What do you mean by "not only limited to just the singular person"?

If you don't get vaccinated and get the disease, or choose not to wear a mask, you can pass it on to someone else. It's not just about your health but the health of those around you. That has of course been true of every other disease prior to C19 though. The immunocompromised have to deal with rhinovirus and adenovirus as deadly threats where the rest of the population is walking around with these ever present, spreading the viruses everywhere.

 

[Nesh]

Let's open a thread about influenza too

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Why?

 

[Nesh]

Because since we are still keeping the discussion about COVID as relevant as it was back when it first appeared, we should make one about influenza since it was one of the deadliest pandemics in modern history. Influenza still exists and evolves.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Covid is presently spreading and killing way above Influenza. It's still a novel virus that's not completely normalised. Covid is currently killing 30+ people a day in the UK. Flu killed 1200 in the entirety of 2019, and killed less in the entirety of 2012 (83) than C19 killed over Christmas.

Next time there's an influenza pandemic that killing 20+ people a day, we can have a relevant discussion, but right here, right now, and for the past four years, flu is just a dot on the statistics.

 

[Albuquerque]

What do you mean by "not only limited to just the singular person"?

Shifty got the gist of it, however I'll add a bit more.

It's very rare that a decision, any decision, is ever made in pure isolation. Some decisions are more benign than others... Will you choose to play Cyberpunk 2077 or Baulders Gate 3 today? Your decision may help put that game into a higher place on the Steam rankings, which may influence other would-be customers to make their purchase, or might influence the game creators to finally commit to making the next game, or perhaps the inverse. All in all, your choice of CP2077 vs BG3 might have repercussions for hundreds of jobs and millions of dollars. But probably not

At the same time, by ignoring a sickness (any sickness, doesn' have to be COVID) and then going to work, or visiting elders, or hell just being out in close proximity to the rest of the world means you're also increasing the risk of all those people getting sick. For you and I, perhaps COVID is more akin to a rather severe cold, however to my immunocomprimised 71 year old mother in law (she has early stages leukemia) it might literally be the last thing she gets sick with.

We as a family choose not to visit her until after we've had a chance to self-isolate for a few days and test, mostly because all of us like her and would prefer she stick around longer.

 

[Nesh]

Covid is presently spreading and killing way above Influenza. It's still a novel virus that's not completely normalised. Covid is currently killing 30+ people a day in the UK. Flu killed 1200 in the entirety of 2019, and killed less in the entirety of 2012 (83) than C19 killed over Christmas.

Next time there's an influenza pandemic that killing 20+ people a day, we can have a relevant discussion, but right here, right now, and for the past four years, flu is just a dot on the statistics.

Unless the numbers I checked are incorrect:
Deaths by COVID in 2023 is estimated around 316k.
Deaths by influenza is estimated around 290k to 650k annually.

 

[Albuquerque]

Are you able to share where you got those numbers? Odd that your source was able to provide very specific 2023 numbrs for COVID and yet somehow a general handwaving number for influenza...

 

[Nesh]

Are you able to share where you got those numbers? Odd that your source was able to provide very specific 2023 numbrs for COVID and yet somehow a general handwaving number for influenza...

Influenza (Seasonal)

WHO fact sheet on influenza: includes key facts, definition, symptoms, transmission, seasonal epidemics, effects, prevention, WHO response.

www.who.int

COVID-19 data | WHO COVID-19 dashboard

<p>Updated quarterly</p>

data.who.int

For covid you have to download the data from here and subtract the cumulative amount of deaths at the end of 2022 from the cumulative amount of deaths at the end of 2023

 

[Albuquerque]

From the WHO website, we have COVID numbers:

• Over 760 million cases and 6.9 million deaths have been recorded worldwide since December 2019, but the actual number is thought to be higher.

And then we have Influenza numbers:

• There are around a billion cases of seasonal influenza annually, including 3–5 million cases of severe illness.
• It causes 290 000 to 650 000 respiratory deaths annually.

Math on the COVID numbers says 6.9 million people divided by three years since December 2019 means more than two million people per year are dying of COVID, compared to 650k (stated worst case) for influenza. Since no more precise details are provided for influenza, the data says COVID mortality is >3x higher than the flu, and COVID is far worse when you consider the cases vs death rate.

 

[Nesh]

From the WHO website, we have COVID numbers:


And then we have Influenza numbers:


Math on the COVID numbers says 6.9 million people divided by three years since December 2019 means more than two million people per year are dying of COVID, compared to 650k (stated worst case) for influenza. Since no more precise details are provided for influenza, the data says COVID mortality is >3x higher than the flu, and COVID is far worse when you consider the cases vs death rate.

You are doing it wrong.
The COVID strain is no longer the same deadly one as we had the first two years, just like influenza is no longer causing as many deaths as it was when it appeared as the Spanish flu (which between 1918 and 1920 killed hugely more than Covid did. It was the largest pandemic in our modern history)
You have to do math specifically to measure it's death toll separately per year, in this case for 2023, not take the total and divide it by 3.

 

[Albuquerque]

Let's try another source, the NIH:

It has been common both to make and to resist comparisons that equate the Covid-19 pandemic to influenza. We take the comparison between Covid-19 and flu seriously by asking how many years of influenza and pneumonia deaths are needed for cumulative deaths to those two causes to equal the cumulative toll of the Covid-19 pandemic between March 2020 and February 2023-that is, three years of pandemic deaths. We find that in one state alone-Hawaii-three years of Covid-19 mortality is equivalent to influenza and pneumonia mortality in the three years preceding the Covid-19 pandemic. For all other states, at least nine years of flu and pneumonia are needed to match Covid-19; for the United States as a whole, seventeen years are needed; and for four states, more than 21 years (the maximum observable) are needed. These results provide an easy-to-understand calibration of flu as a heuristic for Covid-19, and vice versa.

So we need, on average, 17 years of cumulative pneumonia and influenza deaths to equal the three years of COVID deaths seen in the United States.

Looks like the flu still doesn't need it's own thread. Feel free to refute with data...

 

[Nesh]

Let's try another source, the NIH:



So we need, on average, 17 years of cumulative pneumonia and influenza deaths to equal the three years of COVID deaths seen in the United States.

Looks like the flu still doesn't need it's own thread. Feel free to refute with data...

At this point you are either trolling, or you just suck at comprehending what you read, at math and statistics or all of the above.
So I will let you be until you are in a position where you can discuss maturely

 

[Mariner]

You are doing it wrong.
The COVID strain is no longer the same deadly one as we had the first two years.

It's nothing to do with the particular strain of Covid (the current dominant variants are enormously more infectious than the original virus out of Wuhan). It's about immunity. Most people have been vaccinated or infected (generally both) since 2020 and this has provided substantial immunity against the most serious infection. However, the lot of people are still dying from the virus, often needlessly and there are significant numbers of people suffering with 'Long Covid', which we assume is auto-immune related. We know that air filtration works very well to reduce all infectious diseases (including the flu), but nobody is trying to implement such technology in most public areas.

There is fear of a flu pandemic of the 'Spanish flu' type but, other than surveillance, there doesn't seem to be much in the way of preparations going on for such an event. And, of course, it is perfectly possible that a variant of Covid will evolve which could overcome our current immunity.

Thankfully, the scientists are still working on improved vaccines, but that's pretty much all that anybody is doing.

Governments have learned very little from the Covid pandemic. My 5 year old daughter has had Covid a couple of times and wasn't poorly on either occasion, but she's never had a vaccine, because they aren't available to the young in the UK any longer. Hopefully, her current immunity will continue to protect her.

I'm over 50 now and haven't had a booster for a couple of years (though it was extremely mild on the two occasions I developed it).

However, I'd imagine I'll be offered one in due course as I've just been diagnosed with a type of epilepsy. Seems strange to develop that in your second decade, but it does happen. Caused by my past mild Covid infections, perhaps? Might even be down to my first vaccination which was the AZ jab as I did have persistent headaches after that!

Anyway, Covid is still a very serious problem for the most vulnerable and we shouldn't be pretending it isn't. Those with compromised immunity are met with a shrug and left to their own devices.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

At this point you are either trolling, or you just suck at comprehending what you read, at math and statistics or all of the above.
So I will let you be until you are in a position where you can discuss maturely

Keep it civil, always!