You know I really don't like LCDs

Discussion in 'PC Hardware, Software and Displays' started by Freak'n Big Panda, Mar 29, 2008.

  1. Freak'n Big Panda

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    For one reason: IQ sucks at non native res. Which is starting to drive me insane as I don't have the $$ to constantly upgrade my comp which puts me in a very bad situation. Either I drop the res and deal with IQ rivaling NTSC TVs or I game at 19x12 @ 15fps. Just ridiculous! I don't know who decided to ax CRTs but it was a bad bad idea. That guy needs to be shot.

    Anyways am I the only person annoyed at this situation?
     
  2. Mize

    Mize 3dfx Fan
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    uh...most lcds can display pixel-for-pixel at lower resolution (i.e. they don't scale the image, they simply use less of the monitor). The IQ under such is just as good as at full resolution.
     
  3. vazel

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    This is one of the reasons I'm waiting for the SED displays before I move away from CRT, not just for the IQ improvement but hoping they'll stick better scalers in them! I tried about half a dozen LCD monitors before I gave up on them. The high end HDTVs have better scalers and I know some use them as monitors but do they take in non-ATSC/NTSC resolutions?
    Except that you're now gaming in a small box on your screen. That trade off is just as bad as the blurring from running it at full screen non-native resolution.
     
    #3 vazel, Mar 29, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 29, 2008
  4. digitalwanderer

    digitalwanderer Dangerously Mirthful
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  5. Freak'n Big Panda

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    Yeah I haven't herd anything about SED either. Whats special about it? I could google but I'm too lazy and hung over this morning to be bothered.

    Also about scalers.... does anybody know if it would be possible to buy an external scaler that would scale the output prior to it reaching the DVI input on my monitor?
     
  6. vazel

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    I don't mean to mislead anyone. SEDs is a fixed pixel technology like LCD but based on CRT techonolgy(for better blacks and colors). I'm just hoping that when SED displays come along a trend of better scalers will come with it.
     
  7. digitalwanderer

    digitalwanderer Dangerously Mirthful
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    Ooooh, sounds yummy! When?
     
  8. vazel

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    It's in lawsuit hell right now. Who knows.
     
  9. AlBran

    AlBran Ferro-Fibrous
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    20 years? ;)
     
  10. Ty

    Ty Roberta E. Lee
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    SEDs were pretty much killed off a year or so ago.
     
  11. Mintmaster

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    Scalers won't really get any better.

    The problem with fixed resolution displays displaying non-native resolution is only a big problem with aliased 3D games and text. Once you put 4xAA in there, the scaling works quite well, and writing text at native res doesn't impact performance meaningfully.

    What we need is devs changing their rendering process a bit. Users should be able to choose an internal resolution for the 3D stuff (hopefully AA compatible) as well as an external resolution that the 3D image is scaled to so that text/HUD can be displayed at native res.
     
  12. vazel

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    We know scalers vary because we see it in HDTVs. Do PC monitors even let you turn off that blur filter they do when scaling? So how would you be able to tell if anti-aliased 3D scales better when everything goes through that blur filter?
    I've always hoped for an app that will scale games to the monitor's native res so that you'll be able to bypass the monitor's scaling and give you different scaling algorithm choices like lanczos.
     
    #12 vazel, Mar 29, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 30, 2008
  13. Jawed

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    I thought both ATI and NVidia driver control panels provide "software scaling"? The quality of this should be decent in comparison with LCD panel scaling...

    Haven't NVidia drivers offered this feature for ages, while it's only just arrived in ATI's?

    Jawed
     
  14. see colon

    see colon All Ham & No Potatos
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    UT3 does this. there is a resolution setting, and a "Rendering %" or something similar that you can lower and increase performance, but the HUD and everything still look clean because they are drawn at the native resolution.

    I'm not sure if other UE3 games have this setting because I only own the one, and I found it mighty usefull when I was between video cards (RMA).
     
  15. vazel

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    The last time I tried nVidia's scaling it blurred too.
     
  16. Jawed

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    It's a matter of choosing the lesser evil, i.e. which upsizing method produces the most pleasing result.

    Jawed
     
  17. vazel

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    But they were both blurry. Can someone with an ATI card try the scaling feature on it? I doubt it'll be anything but blurry as well considering good scaling requires some CPU horsepower but it's worth a shot.
     
  18. Freak'n Big Panda

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    yep it's blurry as expected.

    EDIT: You know scaling is always going to be a lossy procedure. I think IQ will always suffer fairly significantly regardless of how high quality the scaling hardware is. Must better just to own CRTs IMO.
     
  19. PsychoZA

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    If you actually apply some lateral thinking, this whole problem is rather silly. If the native res of a 24inch monitor was 1280x720, so no scaling was involved, the image would look just as bad. There is no miracle cure to scaling up an image. CRT monitors are generally smaller than LCD, so its a mute point (I have a 22inch CRT and its as high as a 22inch 16:10 LCD, i.e. considerably smaller). Just use 1:1 pixel mapping, run the game in 1680x1050 and you won't have a problem. The 9600GT can run every game in that res or higher, so I don't see a problem. Ideally 24 inch monitors would have the resolution of the 30inch. I would much rather have a higher dot pitch monitor than the current ones.

    Now the real problem with LCDs is their displaying of dark colours/blacks. A screen which creates light sources rather than filters one big one will always be superior in that regard.

    EDIT: If you have a problem with the 1:1 scaling size, just sit closer... I game with my Xbox 360 on my 24inch LCD with 1:1 mapping. I've tried the internal Xbox Scaler and the one insider the monitor and they both produce an identical result. In the end I had two choices, sit closer with 1:1 or sit further away with scaling. I chose 1:1 as its on my desk.
     
  20. Mintmaster

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    Go have some fun with photoshop, or ffdshow on in game native-res trailers. It doesn't matter what algorithm you use. Aliased images scale quite poorly.

    Native res with an aliased image just has an illusion of good quality. You're seeing false sharpness with the polygon edges and text.

    It's good to see that games like UT3 are taking the right approach.

    PsychoZA: Well put.
     
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