Yet another manufacturer drops ATI...

Discussion in 'Graphics and Semiconductor Industry' started by vnet, May 22, 2004.

  1. vnet

    Newcomer

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2004
    Messages:
    70
    Likes Received:
    0
    After Hercules and Terratec droping the graphics card business (both were ATI partners), it seems that Creative is joining in too : it appears they want to ditch ATi but still sell nV cards, according to The Inquirer :
    Could this be a pattern of manufacturers desperately trying to run away from ATi? You have to admit it is too big a coincidence, all in a row. Which will be the next manufacturer to join them?

    Flee, flee while you still can...
     
  2. bloodbob

    bloodbob Trollipop
    Veteran

    Joined:
    May 23, 2003
    Messages:
    1,630
    Likes Received:
    27
    Location:
    Australia
    My personally opion is I think ATI oversold thier product and their expectations of the card weren't what finally came and the board makers got burnt and are trying to get out the situation.

    But to be honest I dunno.
     
  3. tEd

    tEd Casual Member
    Veteran

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2002
    Messages:
    2,094
    Likes Received:
    58
    Location:
    switzerland
    AFAIK creative only made ati cards for the asia market. Terratec was also nvidia partner
     
  4. Evildeus

    Veteran

    Joined:
    May 24, 2002
    Messages:
    2,657
    Likes Received:
    2
    Yeah.
     
  5. Guden Oden

    Guden Oden Senior Member
    Legend

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2003
    Messages:
    6,201
    Likes Received:
    91
    "Desperately"???

    Well, I guess it COULD be a sign, if you're a blind NV fan.

    Hm, why would I have to "admit" that? Hercules was dismantled, what, months ago now?

    Really, you sound like a screaming "the sky is falling!" madcap, probably because you WANT the sky to fall (for ATi, at least).
     
  6. anaqer

    Veteran

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2004
    Messages:
    1,287
    Likes Received:
    1
    You mean, like, from this thread before the Troll-O-Meter overshoots?
     
  7. nAo

    nAo Nutella Nutellae
    Veteran

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2002
    Messages:
    4,325
    Likes Received:
    93
    Location:
    San Francisco
    I'm really not into this kind of things..but if a relevant group of gfx cards producers try to shift from an IHV to another one could it be that is due to the fact they have some insight on future products that we don't have?
     
  8. anaqer

    Veteran

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2004
    Messages:
    1,287
    Likes Received:
    1
    Question : does Terratec, Hercules & Creative count as a relevant group in PC graphics...?
     
  9. drspangle

    Newcomer

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2004
    Messages:
    51
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    Auckland, New Zeland
    Put your hand up if you or someone you know owns a Hercules, Creative or Terratec ATi card.

    Anyone?
     
  10. nAo

    nAo Nutella Nutellae
    Veteran

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2002
    Messages:
    4,325
    Likes Received:
    93
    Location:
    San Francisco
    Let me clarify my statement.
    My question is not about this specific case but it's a general question.
    I first thought about that when more than a year ago a lot of card manufacters shiftwed away form nvidia..way more time before the geforce fx debacle was clear to us all.

    ciao,
    Marco
     
  11. Dave Baumann

    Dave Baumann Gamerscore Wh...
    Moderator Legend

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2002
    Messages:
    14,079
    Likes Received:
    648
    Location:
    O Canada!
    Creative operate as three separate entities - Asia, Europe and Ameria. They effectively operate as separate companies and manufacturers deal with them as such (Note, that the US division dropped out of graphics entirely).

    During the GF4 era Asia noticed that Creative Europe were getting preffered prices on NV parts when they weren't - Creative have one of the best distribution capabilities in Europe, which its why its so important, jence NV were giving Europe premium prices. Naturally Asia got PO'ed at this and turned to NV and said "We want Europes prices", which got rebuffed by NV, so they said "Well, we'll get our chips through Creative Europe", which also got rebuffed. Eventually Asia issued an utlimatum that stated "if we don't get better pricing we'll go with ATI". So, for the 8500 and 9700 timespan Asia went with ATI, whilst Creative Europe stuck with NV. More recently Europe started selling ATI alongside NV.

    Given this report appear to talk about Singapore, I would assume that they are talking about the Asia division, so that might not impact Creative Europe. I suspect that this could be a role reversal of what we saw last time - ATI keen to keep Creative Europes distribution capabilities and so they are getting better prices than Creative Asia (and so they go back to NV).
     
  12. tEd

    tEd Casual Member
    Veteran

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2002
    Messages:
    2,094
    Likes Received:
    58
    Location:
    switzerland
    but nobody is really shifting. hercules and terratec droped out completely and not shifting to another IHV and creative doesn't shift either as they were always more nvidia than ati partner.
     
  13. nAo

    nAo Nutella Nutellae
    Veteran

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2002
    Messages:
    4,325
    Likes Received:
    93
    Location:
    San Francisco
    Sorry but that's not related to my question. Why has everything to be seen as an attack or defense of some kind of entity on this board?
    I'm NOT talking about this specific case
     
  14. anaqer

    Veteran

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2004
    Messages:
    1,287
    Likes Received:
    1
    Then you may have a point - but also observe that these decisions are oftentimes more influenced by various business policies then the predicted succes of the cards themselves (as suggested by Dave's example).
     
  15. tEd

    tEd Casual Member
    Veteran

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2002
    Messages:
    2,094
    Likes Received:
    58
    Location:
    switzerland
    having info of future products may be a reason for a board manuf. to shift to another IHV but not the only one. It has probably to do with chip prices also as DaveB. pointed out and some other buisness stuff(brands,new markets)
     
  16. Evildeus

    Veteran

    Joined:
    May 24, 2002
    Messages:
    2,657
    Likes Received:
    2
    I think the most interesting shift was gigabyte. I think most of the board makers are now willing to do business with both Nv and Ati.

    But it doesn't sound good for Ati strategy, since it seems that they were willing to focus on Asia and East Europe markets. Losing Creative in Asia is not a good point for them.
     
  17. Richthofen

    Newcomer

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2002
    Messages:
    200
    Likes Received:
    3
    yeah gigabyte was quite interesting. They dropped Nvidia completly and went with ATI.
    After a short period of time they joined the Nvidia bandwagon again and stated that they will concentrate more on Nvidia products.

    Don't know how this creative story pans out but it seems that ATI is not in the position anymore they were over the last months.
    Their new generation products (i really wouldn't call it a new generations because there is only few new.) are not really faster and offer less technology wise than the competition.
    Could be pretty hurting in the mainstream segment. Depends on how good Nvidia can penetrate with their mainstream und low end products into the market and how fast they can start shipping them.
     
  18. Dave Baumann

    Dave Baumann Gamerscore Wh...
    Moderator Legend

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2002
    Messages:
    14,079
    Likes Received:
    648
    Location:
    O Canada!
    Gigabyte has a 40% stake in GeCube, which is ATI only, so I'm not sure how telling that move is. Given the reports of MSI "definitaly" sticking with NVIDIA after JHH visit, MSI's dual move is probably more significant - I'd think they believe the market dynamics over the course of time is going to be much closer.

    Anyway, this isn't necessarily just about technology these day, especially when they are close. One thing you have to wonder on the new high end parts (where the board vendors get the best margins) is which is going to offer the board vendors the best margins, so even if one doesn't have technical superiority over another, dependant on the market situation the drive can also be about the margins the vendors believe they can get of one or another board. That also goes hand in hand with the supply of the chips, and you can bet that when the volume starts, ASUS and MSI will be getting the majority.
     
  19. Mark0

    Newcomer

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2003
    Messages:
    105
    Likes Received:
    1
    Maybe ther's also something coming from 3DLabs (Creative owned)?

    Bye!
     
  20. Dave Baumann

    Dave Baumann Gamerscore Wh...
    Moderator Legend

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2002
    Messages:
    14,079
    Likes Received:
    648
    Location:
    O Canada!
    Not for the consumer market, not from this gen (as far as I understand).
     
Loading...

Share This Page

  • About Us

    Beyond3D has been around for over a decade and prides itself on being the best place on the web for in-depth, technically-driven discussion and analysis of 3D graphics hardware. If you love pixels and transistors, you've come to the right place!

    Beyond3D is proudly published by GPU Tools Ltd.
Loading...