xbox360 game's graphics > PC game's graphics?

Discussion in 'PC Gaming' started by whatsinaname, Dec 6, 2005.

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  1. pjbliverpool

    pjbliverpool B3D Scallywag
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    And your overlooking the fact that those graphics cards were designed precisely for gaming. That RAM is no different than what you will find in a console and that CPU was designed with games performance in mind and is no different (in basic design philosophy) than that which powers the previous king of consoles: the xbox.

    So the PC has an operating system, do you know how much CPU power that takes up when the games running? Well it takes zero when a games not running so why would it be any different? As for the memory it takes up, well PC's have tons to spare anyway.

    Then you would lose. Badly. I honestly can't believe you would attempt to compare the performance of such a system to the X360. How about going and looking at the benchmarks and resolutions that thing can output in the games that are on both systems and then ask yourself if the X360 could do the same.

    I guess you missed the part were I said putting cost aside? Everybody knows consoles are far cheaper, we don't need yet another person trying to change the basis of a perfectly well defined argument in order to influence its outcome. Just stay on topic.

    And what does your opinion have to do with which is more powerful?

    So you would prefer to wait while the PC's power doubles every year to compare the two? Yes thats a lot more wise to make the comparison fair. This is when the consoles have their biggest advantage because PC game graphics develop faster than console game graphics. Yes last gen console are hitting their peaks now and just look at that compared to what the PC is outputting. Its a clear generation ahead (being on a par with the xbox's successor).

    Im all for the best entertainment system I can afford. If thats a PC why should I care if others don't think its worth it? Perhaps they don't have as much disposable income?
     
  2. AlphaWolf

    AlphaWolf Specious Misanthrope
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    I don't think you can look at the high end PC's for a comparison to consoles, you have to look at the target market. Developers aren't targetting the high end, they are targetting the whole range. For the PC market that means they have to make compromises, they have to invest development time and resources for supporting older hardware, time that could have gone to improving other areas. For consoles they don't have to make that comprise, they don't have a moving target.
     
  3. Doomtrooper

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    PC power does not relate to double the game experience, there hasn't been a PC game released EVER that warrants a $3000 dollar investment period. Especially in the last couple of years PC gaming has gone all MORPG, yawn.

    I was once to claim the same, but you like myself will always be a minority as developers target the INSTALLED user base, not 1% of the market that buy high end expensive cards.

    As for losing in "frame rate" to a high end PC at 1080i resolution or 1080x1920 with a DUAL 7800 GTX vs. a Xbox 360, "frame rate" doesn't equal better graphics, developers make better graphics.
     
  4. Mintmaster

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    Don't forget that the GTX 512MB has twice the memory and 2.5 times the bandwidth.

    It all comes down to developer skills, though. We haven't seen anything near the true capabilities of PC hardware, because developers have to have at least a DX8 fallback (due to DX8 users as well as Xbox original).

    In a year's time I fully expect consoles to have superior graphics, but then the PC will take over again soon after. As long as the computer industry can convince us to spend over $1000 on a new PC, then it remains reasonable for a gamer to spend over $200 on a video card. A couple of years from now, $200 will run over XB360 and PS3. Then PC games can start to push new limits again.
     
  5. Guden Oden

    Guden Oden Senior Member
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    Actually, it has a lot more gaming muscle than any PC you might care to assemble today.

    While it might not have the brute horsepower of your crude and wasteful supercharged big-block V8 PC, it more than makes up for it in other ways. For example it has over five times the floating point calculation capability of any PC processor out today. The CPU and GPU are both tightly integrated where the GPU has direct read and write access to the CPU's L2 cache across a bidirectional 10+ GB/s read AND write link, and 20+ GB/s main memory subsystem. Can you name any PC processor that comes close to 10GB/s bus speed, much less in both directions simultaneously? Furthermore, the GPU's shaders have random access to main memory, a feature that isn't slated even for DX10. The GPU has enough on-chip bandwidth to do 4xAA with very little penalty, and thanks to eDRAM, fillrate is going to be monstrously fast, particulary with transparencies and such.

    Sure, all this power needs special care in order to be untapped, but if all problems are solved with more MBs, more MHzses, more pipes and more add-in boards like in a PC, then price is going to zoom away off into the stratosphere. Like with the PC you quoted the specs of in your post...
     
  6. pjbliverpool

    pjbliverpool B3D Scallywag
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    I hear what your saying. But there's no denying that playing a game at 1920x1200 with 4xSSAA/16xAF at a solid 60fps is better than playing the same game at 1280x720 with 2xFSAA at 30fps. Right now thats all that high end PC's can offer over the X360 but in a year or so other graphical features will start to be taken advantage of in PC games over consoles.

    And a $3000 PC may not be worth it to you or I but to someone who $3000 is a months disposable income, they may prefer to spend it for the best gaming experience possible (assuming they like PC genres).
     
  7. pjbliverpool

    pjbliverpool B3D Scallywag
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    Lol. Less than half the GPU power in every area (less than a quarter in some). Yep thats truly what I call " a lot of gaming muscle".

    So state of the art technology is crude now is it? And as for wastefull, no-ones claiming PC's get used to their full potential, this is an argument about which has more potential. They are two different concepts my friend.

    1) No it doesn't, im not sure if the P4 can do 4 or 8 fp ops per cycle with SSE3 but if its 4 then the Xenon has less than 5 times, not more. If its 8 then its a little over double a dual core P4.
    2) P4's have more floating point power than Athlons. Athlons are far better at gaming.
    3) CPU power isn't the bottleneck in a graphics heavy game. The GPU is. The PC has well over double the available programmable floating point performance for shaders.
    4) Its only theoretical floating point performance, we both know it will constrained in real life by other factors where the Xenon is inferior to a full PC CPU (lack of cache, poor branch prediction, In order excecution, lack of excecution units, general efficiency)


    That 21.8GB/sec is shared between CPU-GPU communication and CPU-Memory communication. The A64 seperates these on different busses resulting in a total off chip bandwidth of 14.4GB/sec. Still not equal but not a million miles away. Yes the X360's GPU communicates with the CPU better, it doesn't change the fact that the GPU itself is less than half as powerfull as whats in the PC. Itf the GPU that will be rendering the game.

    It has a few features lacking in PC GPU's yes. These are primarily to keep costs down and efficiency up. They arn't going to perform magic tricks. If slapping some edram onto the die would allow ATI to create a mass producable, cool, low power, cheap GPU with more than double the power of an overclocked GTX 512 half a year ago, don't you think they would have done it already in the PC space? And don't give me the resolution argument, thats what tilings for and a bigger framebuffer could have been included on PC cards to make 1600x1200 the equivilent of 720p on the X360.

    Yes the PC's more expensive. Once again I had already said putting cost aside. Bottom line, compare that PC's performance in any of the cross platform games to what the X360's capable of. And thats with console optimisations which as you have already stated, give it a performance advantage. Now imagine what that PC would be capable of if a dev sat down and tried to eek out every last ouce of potential from it. Surely your not going to try to claim that they could get better results on the X360? Do you really think a better link between GPU and CPU will make up for 2GB of system memory? Or almost 2.5 times the shader power? Or over 3 times the textured fill rate?
     
  8. _xxx_

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    LOL, where's that popcorn? :lol:
     
  9. AlBran

    AlBran Ferro-Fibrous
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    Putting cost aside, nothing beats my BlueGene.
     
    #29 AlBran, Dec 8, 2005
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 8, 2005
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