Xbox Upscaler... Any Details and Information?

[ProjectNatalFan]

Now I come in with that asking, not telling. Does anyone on here have any kind of information on the xbox upscaler. I ask because im generally impressed. I saw Killer Instinct it looks vastly superior to Forza which is running at 1080p 60fps. I also saw the BF4 videos and for the life of me the xbox one looks vastly better lol. I blilnd asked my wife about it and I covered the two symbols indicating system the comparison one and it was clear to her and she picked the xbox version. So im generally intrigued to the fullest and I figure if anyone can have any kind of specific answer on this it would be you fine intelligent gentleman. I heard its called Henna 2.

 

[Cyan]

I've never been able to edit the title of the threads I started, I don't know why. Maybe I did something wrong...

As I understand it the scaler is very similar to PS4's, it's just that it has an extra display plane. Or perhaps it is one of the 15 co-processors Microsoft mentioned in some interview.

I am not entirely sure. Let's see how things play out...

 

[ProjectNatalFan]

I've never been able to edit the title of the threads I started, I don't know why. Maybe I did something wrong...

As I understand it the scaler is very similar to PS4's, it's just that it has an extra display plane. Or perhaps it is one of the 15 co-processors Microsoft mentioned in some interview.

I am not entirely sure. Let's see how things play out...

the 1080 display plane, like the one they use for HUDS? thanks for that info tho, also yes the 15 co-processors makes some sense, makes light of it. im going to the freaking Microsoft again to see this with my own eyes. killer instinct is amazingly detailed, It fool DF pixel counters, they took it for granted I think.

 

[Jwm]

So what is Hana? Eurogamer shows it is not a scaler, but Ars says that it is.

I did read that X1 and PS4 should be doing the scaling on the GPU side, but we did have the BF4 comparison in Eurogamer talking about a software scaler. The X1 architects have talked about a really good hardware scaler, but I have not see if this lies with a new Hana or it is all on the GPU like a PC?

 

[djskribbles]

Unless the sharpness is scalable, BF4 on X1 seems to just have very aggressive post sharpening because I haven't seen such artifacts on other sub-1080p X1 games (ringing, aliasing being amplified). Personally, I think that if that's what the scaler does, then it's not a good quality scaler.

 

[ProjectNatalFan]

Unless the sharpness is scalable, BF4 on X1 seems to just have very aggressive post sharpening because I haven't seen such artifacts on other sub-1080p X1 games (ringing, aliasing being amplified). Personally, I think that if that's what the scaler does, then it's not a good quality scaler.

does very aggressive post sharpening? is this just a single case, in regards to BF4. The Killer INstinct demo had me zombified, and also this upscaler has tricked a lot of people. Its good id wager, seems like it was discussed.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Firstly, what images are you using as reference? Some Googlage throws up mostly 720p images, or 1080p images from Blursville, YT. I've found a couple of 1080p screenies, which include a 1080p native image (PR shot?) and an obviously upscaled and sharpened image. (I haven't checked sources to see what's what, only pointing out reference material isn't great)

With that said, I doubt anyone will have info on the scaling algorithm. That's the sort of thing only the engineers will know. We never learnt XB360's upscaler AFAIK, although we were told the number of taps (7 IIRC).

 

[XpiderMX]

I guess the TV is important.

 

[Steve Dave Part Deux]

Considering how good the 360's scaling hardware is, that functionality is obviously something MS places a high priority upon. I would say that it is reasonable to assume that given their experience and the design of the One that they anticipated similar functionality would be essential once again. It also fits with the power and cost saving mantra that is pervasive throughout the whole system. I would also say that given Sony shipped a product with broken scaling hardware in the last console cycle and that they designed their current hardware with headroom for pushing pixels, that it was less of a priority in their design and is likely not as robust. I'm sure we'll see for ourselves soon enough. As far as I'm concerned, we're all splitting hairs for no damn reason anyhow.

 

[ProjectNatalFan]

I saw it twice in person. Yrsterday and today at a microsft kiosk. Amazed by killer intinct looks 1080p to me but it isnt lol

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Oh, if not going by a screenshot, I guess it's more your perception than anything else. If you see the upscaled shot I posted, assuming it's genuine, the jaggies are noticeable and there's a clear sharpening filter. However, at 60fps the jaggies will generally be less noticeable, and the sharpening filter probably makes it stand out somewhat.

I'm not convinced it's doing anything a general TV upscaler won't achieve, although it should achieve the upscaling with less lag in most cases is my guess.

 

[ProjectNatalFan]

Oh, if not going by a screenshot, I guess it's more your perception than anything else. If you see the upscaled shot I posted, assuming it's genuine, the jaggies are noticeable and there's a clear sharpening filter. However, at 60fps the jaggies will generally be less noticeable, and the sharpening filter probably makes it stand out somewhat.

I'm not convinced it's doing anything a general TV upscaler won't achieve, although it should achieve the upscaling with less lag in most cases is my guess.

yeah well I guess its kinda subjective, but the bf4 screenshots, IGN, DF, JakeFrags, I saw them all and I thought the Xbox One Verision looked better to me and I didn't wanna admit that going w/ the comparison of 900p to 720p. I think it carrys over the colors that the 360 did somehow, the upscale looked a lot better than PS4's. I know its kinda taboo to say a 720p looked better than 900p comparisons, but I I was really telling myself to like the PS4 version but in all honesty I wanted to say the xbox one looked better. I showed my wife and covered the bf4 vs xo one from IGN and she said without a doubt XO, I showed her a few scenes too. I asked Albert Penello about it and he wouldn't answer of course.

 

[ProjectNatalFan]

I guess the TV is important.

yes this is true, and another question I have is if you indeed have a 4k tv, which im planning to get 2014 holiday, will it upscale to that? Albert Penello didn't answer that question either .lol

 

[Pixel]

We can do the experimentation ourselves.

Someone with 10 minutes on their hand with a 1080p monitor and ATI 7xxx gpu needs to go into ATI Catalyst Control center >> My Digital FlatPanel Properties >> enable Gpu scaling checkbox and set it to display panel size (which is why someone with 1080p monitor needs to do this). Then go into BF4 and set resolution to 1280x720 and 1600x900 respectively.

I'm curious how it compares to both consoles.

 

[XpiderMX]

yes this is true, and another question I have is if you indeed have a 4k tv, which im planning to get 2014 holiday, will it upscale to that? Albert Penello didn't answer that question either .lol

Someone (in spain) told me that he saw FIFA 14 (Xbox One version) on a 4K TV and he could not see any issue, not "more" aliasing than a 1080p TV and the game looks great.

 

[orangpelupa]

But the gpu scaling not always upscale to 1080p. At least that what happens on my 7700

 

[ProjectNatalFan]

Someone (in spain) told me that he saw FIFA 14 (Xbox One version) on a 4K TV and he could not see any issue, not "more" aliasing than a 1080p TV and the game looks great.

so a 4k tv w/ one is a great combo. if the hana2 upscales to that I wonder if it could do the display plane as well in 2160p, doubt it as I heard its a 1080p display plane. I have also heard that the same upscaler in the xo is also on the ps4, I don't how legit it is tho.

 

[XpiderMX]

In the Digital Foundry article (with MS engineers), they said that One include a "higher quality" scaler than Xbox 360.

How good are the AMD scalers? The Xbox One scaler is the same than the scaler on AMD GPUs from PC?

We built Xbox One with a higher quality scaler than on Xbox 360, and added an additional display plane, to provide more freedom to developers in this area.

 

[ProjectNatalFan]

In the Digital Foundry article (with MS engineers), they said that One include a "high quality" scaler.

How good are the AMD scalers?

I wish we could get more info on it, I believe goosen said that right? is it custom, or is it what ps4 uses but with the a co processor and a display plane?? never gonna get this answers, bkilian can you find out lol

 

[Pixel]

But the gpu scaling not always upscale to 1080p. At least that what happens on my 7700

Are you sure you are configuring your settings correctly? Do you have a 1080p monitor? In settings did you select "scale to panel size"?

I'm curious since you DIDN'T say "gpu scaling NEVER upscales to 1080p" and used the words "not always" how is scaling in game where you do upscale to 1080p?