Xbox Series S [XBSS] (Lockhart) General Rumors and Speculation *spawn*

[eastmen]

No idea. You talking about this?

Not sure I like a total Switch knock-off. I like the idea of a tablet paired with a standard Xbox One controller though.

Tommy McClain

I mean it looks like every other portable system since like the lynx and game gear.
AMD Ryzen™ 7 4700U
Graphics Model
AMD Radeon™ Graphics
# of CPU Cores
8
# of Threads
8
Max Boost Clock
Up to 4.1GHz
Base Clock
2.0GHz
Default TDP / TDP
15W

Looking at the 4700u it would it should be able to handle xbox one games just fine. If they wait another year they may be able to use a newer generation zen with an rdna chip instead of vega

If that's the way MS are headed, they could just have an XBox certified third-party program. Their control system is already focussed on adaptability for streaming to touch screens, so I reckon they could support different control types quite comfortably leaving IHVs to experiment somewhat. That's actually a route a lot of us have been kinda expecting, but it is counter to XBox being separate from PC in terms of development. Why bother with a Ryzen running XBox games when it can run Windows games and all XB games come to Windows?

It could work , however it seems that MS is getting more and more into their own hardware as they see what Apple is able to do. Over the last 8 years Microsoft has grown from just the surface rt to Surface go , pro , x , laptop 13.5 , 15 inch , book 13.5, 15 inch , studio and later this year the duo and neo. So it would make sense if they get a surface gaming device out there.

 

[Jay]

Maybe a Lockhart console with 18 fully enabled CU's.
And laptop with is it 2 or 4 disabled?
Either way, its a way to produce lockhart apu's for cheaper, which it needs.
Laptop could play xbox games but I don't think that would be a good idea.

Would just be a reasonably powerful device that can play pc games ok.
Main issue would be the memory interface. Which would be GDDR6.
Maybe Lockhart could be ok with GDDR5?

That's a good question actually would GDDR5 be cheaper at the required bandwidth than GDDR6, to make more savings?

I mean it looks like every other portable system since like the lynx and game gear.

This is just to play XO games locally and stream next gen xcloud?

 

[eastmen]

Maybe a Lockhart console with 18 fully enabled CU's.
And laptop with is it 2 or 4 disabled?
Either way, its a way to produce lockhart apu's for cheaper, which it needs.
Laptop could play xbox games but I don't think that would be a good idea.

Would just be a reasonably powerful device that can play pc games ok.
Main issue would be the memory interface. Which would be GDDR6.
Maybe Lockhart could be ok with GDDR5?

That's a good question actually would GDDR5 be cheaper at the required bandwidth than GDDR6, to make more savings?


This is just to play XO games locally and stream next gen xcloud?

Right now I think it be just for XO games local and next gen xcloud. The 2ghz cpu speed would compare well to the 1.73ghz /2.3ghz jaguar clock speeds in both xbox consoles. The vega gpu in there should be able to give it performance between the xbox one and one x.

In a perfect world AMD would have the newer edition of the zen cpu with an rdna 2 chip ready for next year with the same power profile and then they could just scale xbox series x games down to the portable.

People have postulated that Lockhart was a portable before , maybe it is. 4tflop rdna 2 portable console targeting 1080p ?

 

[Shifty Geezer]

It could work , however it seems that MS is getting more and more into their own hardware as they see what Apple is able to do...

That's a very selective view of MS's hardware endeavours. Sidewinder, MS mouse, Zune, Kin and Lumia phones, yada yada. HW isn't new to them by any stretch and it doesn't strike me that they're any more positioned to try a portable now because they have Surface products than any other point over the previous decade. As others have suggested, an Xbox compatible Surface makes a lot of sense.

 

[AzBat]

That's a very selective view of MS's hardware endeavours. Sidewinder, MS mouse, Zune, Kin and Lumia phones, yada yada. HW isn't new to them by any stretch and it doesn't strike me that they're any more positioned to try a portable now because they have Surface products than any other point over the previous decade. As others have suggested, an Xbox compatible Surface makes a lot of sense.

Look who's being selective. All those died by October 2017. Microsoft's road to hardware redemption started to show up coincidentally in November 2017 with the Xbox One X. Microsoft's decision in 2015 & now in 2020 looks to be paying off.

Tommy McClain

 

[eastmen]

That's a very selective view of MS's hardware endeavours. Sidewinder, MS mouse, Zune, Kin and Lumia phones, yada yada. HW isn't new to them by any stretch and it doesn't strike me that they're any more positioned to try a portable now because they have Surface products than any other point over the previous decade. As others have suggested, an Xbox compatible Surface makes a lot of sense.

I've spoken before about how I think the duo and neo with xcloud will be game changers for portable systems. When I'm out and about I can just keep an xbox controller in my bag and use my exist hardware to play the games. A nice dual screen set up where I can still see messages or emails while I am playing is great.

You could of course create a surface laptop or book dedicated to gaming and I really think microsoft should do that. A non detachable book where you put an amd 4x00 series chip in the screen and have a beefy nvidia or amd card in it could be a great gaming machine in their line up. A surface studio type gaming rig could also be nice. But when you look at that beautiful dell concept and put in next gen tech , you could have a really nice portable xbox to bring everything together.

 

[eastmen]

Look who's being selective. All those died by October 2017. Microsoft's road to hardware redemption started to show up coincidentally in November 2017 with the Xbox One X. Microsoft's decision in 2015 & now in 2020 looks to be paying off.

Tommy McClain

I think your sleeping on the surface division in microsoft. They have been killing it with designs since 2012. Everyone is copying what they have done , even the new ipad pro is taking notes from the surface.

If you look at the new windows 10 x and how its been redesigned for mobile and its devices your going to finally see a real break through for microsoft in the mobile sector. My limited time with the duo and neo have made me a true believer , esp in the neo. I just wish it had a smaller top and bottom bezel and I don't know if it has nfc , but I would love to be able to just put it on a wireless charging pad instead of having to plug it in

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Look who's being selective.

I just picked a handful of notable product lines to show MS hasn't been afraid of making their hardware before, regardless whether they failed (phones, Zune) or succeeded (mouse, Sidewinder, XBox).

All those died by October 2017. Microsoft's road to hardware redemption started to show up coincidentally in November 2017 with the Xbox One X. Microsoft's decision in 2015 & now in 2020 looks to be paying off.

I don't argue with any of that. I argue with the idea that now MS is more into hardware then before making the idea of a portable more realistic now to try and emulate Apple. MS weren't afraid to produce their own Mobile Phone hardware to try and emulate Apple. They weren't afraid to produce their own music player to try and emulate Apple. Trying to emulate Apple isn't reason to make a portable.

Separate to that argument, there's an argument that Surface has been developed into a successful brand that positions a new portable in a stronger position than MS's previous hardware efforts, meaning that where pre-Surface MS may have been discouraged from pursuing a portable, post-Surface MS might see it as another way to take the brand and something MS are willing to try.

Whether they do or they don't, whether Surface takes over the world or not, MS hasn't been afraid to try their own hardware before and even if Surface didn't exist, a portable XBox could be as on the cards as a mobile phone or a music player or a games console.

 

[Deleted member 13524]

I mean it looks like every other portable system since like the lynx and game gear.
AMD Ryzen™ 7 4700U
Graphics Model
AMD Radeon™ Graphics
# of CPU Cores
8
# of Threads
8
Max Boost Clock
Up to 4.1GHz
Base Clock
2.0GHz
Default TDP / TDP
15W

Looking at the 4700u it would it should be able to handle xbox one games just fine. If they wait another year they may be able to use a newer generation zen with an rdna chip instead of vega

Renoir is definitely able to surpass the XBone and even the PS4 in raw processing power. However in both cases it's missing on raw memory bandwidth.
The maximum bandwidth Renoir can get is if they use 128bit LPDDR4-4266 which means 68GB/s. It's just as much bandwidth as the XBone's main memory pool using 256bit DDR3-2166, but then it's missing the 32MB eSRAM with 109GB/s duplex.

That said, with a much more powerful CPU and considerably more modern GPU, Renoir at 15W can probably get better real-world performance than the XBone and maybe even the PS4 in some cases, but given the considerable lack of bandwidth it probably can't emulate those other SoCs' code.

 

[AzBat]

I think your sleeping on the surface division in microsoft. They have been killing it with designs since 2012. Everyone is copying what they have done , even the new ipad pro is taking notes from the surface.

Umm. I think you're confusing me with Shifty. LOL I'm very bullish on the Surface team & products for years. If money was no object I would have every one of them, but I'm tech peasant LOL

If you look at the new windows 10 x and how its been redesigned for mobile and its devices your going to finally see a real break through for microsoft in the mobile sector. My limited time with the duo and neo have made me a true believer , esp in the neo. I just wish it had a smaller top and bottom bezel and I don't know if it has nfc , but I would love to be able to just put it on a wireless charging pad instead of having to plug it in

I think I might take out a 2nd mortgage on my house to get the Duo & Series X. LOL

I just picked a handful of notable product lines to show MS hasn't been afraid of making their hardware before, regardless whether they failed (phones, Zune) or succeeded (mouse, Sidewinder, XBox).
I don't argue with any of that. I argue with the idea that now MS is more into hardware then before making the idea of a portable more realistic now to try and emulate Apple. MS weren't afraid to produce their own Mobile Phone hardware to try and emulate Apple. They weren't afraid to produce their own music player to try and emulate Apple. Trying to emulate Apple isn't reason to make a portable.

Separate to that argument, there's an argument that Surface has been developed into a successful brand that positions a new portable in a stronger position than MS's previous hardware efforts, meaning that where pre-Surface MS may have been discouraged from pursuing a portable, post-Surface MS might see it as another way to take the brand and something MS are willing to try.

Whether they do or they don't, whether Surface takes over the world or not, MS hasn't been afraid to try their own hardware before and even if Surface didn't exist, a portable XBox could be as on the cards as a mobile phone or a music player or a games console.

I will give you that Microsoft hasn't been afraid to do hardware(good & bad) regardless of Apple or Surface. But I disagree about post-Surface success not having an affect on Microsoft's ambition to try smaller portable experiences(phone or gaming). Without it I wouldn't have expected Surface Go & Surface Duo. And I also don't think Microsoft would have even attempted a mobile gaming experience prior either. Right now at the height of Surface's success is when I would expect to hear about a mobile gaming device. If they don't do it within the next year I don't expect they ever will.

BTW, found some interesting Lockhart rumors.

I don't usually link to PureXbox.com but they had the better quotes & sources. Evidently last week YouTube channel Dealer Gaming had a podcast interview with Microsoft's Bill Stillwell, Principal Program Manager, & but Dealer had a video yesterday where he shares some new rumors he has heard since then..

"Xbox Lockhart is real, and I tweeted about it quite some time ago... That was before the [coronavirus pandemic] situation was really taken super seriously around here, so things got pushed back naturally. At one of these events, potentially in early May is what I'm hearing, you may see the unveiling of that cheaper SKU Lockhart."

Guess we might hear more news in the next couple of weeks.

Tommy McClain

 

[Shifty Geezer]

But I disagree about post-Surface success not having an affect on Microsoft's ambition to try smaller portable experiences(phone or gaming).

You can't disagree because I agree with that point. I think yes, post Surface, a Surface product that's also Xbox gaming makes sense. I've said as much before in discussion about Lockhart, asking how low-power could an XBox SOC go.

My argument is really that where eastmen says MS are now interested in hardware because of Surface, I'm saying MS have always been interested in hardware. It's just a counter-argument to the idea (implied if not intended) that MS wouldn't be considering hardware if they hadn't released the Surface line.

 

[Silent_Buddha]

That said, with a much more powerful CPU and considerably more modern GPU, Renoir at 15W can probably get better real-world performance than the XBone and maybe even the PS4 in some cases, but given the considerable lack of bandwidth it probably can't emulate those other SoCs' code.

Good points. As to memory bandwidth there's no reason that MS couldn't use something like Renoir as a basis for a custom APU by just asking AMD to add a GDDR6 memory controller. It would cost MS money to do, but it's certainly with their ability to have it made.

Personally, I'm not sure a mobile Xbox is on the cards for them at the moment. Xcloud is likely the direction they are going for all things mobile Xbox, at least for the moment.

Umm. I think you're confusing me with Shifty. LOL I'm very bullish on the Surface team & products for years. If money was no object I would have every one of them, but I'm tech peasant LOL



I think I might take out a 2nd mortgage on my house to get the Duo & Series X. LOL



I will give you that Microsoft hasn't been afraid to do hardware(good & bad) regardless of Apple or Surface. But I disagree about post-Surface success not having an affect on Microsoft's ambition to try smaller portable experiences(phone or gaming). Without it I wouldn't have expected Surface Go & Surface Duo. And I also don't think Microsoft would have even attempted a mobile gaming experience prior either. Right now at the height of Surface's success is when I would expect to hear about a mobile gaming device. If they don't do it within the next year I don't expect they ever will.

BTW, found some interesting Lockhart rumors.

I don't usually link to PureXbox.com but they had the better quotes & sources. Evidently last week YouTube channel Dealer Gaming had a podcast interview with Microsoft's Bill Stillwell, Principal Program Manager, & but Dealer had a video yesterday where he shares some new rumors he has heard since then..

Guess we might hear more news in the next couple of weeks.

A few months back MS (I believe Phil) mentioned that they planned to have a new announcement at every event they attended. Covid-19 means that events have all basically been cancelled, but any announcements that were previously planned for events will just be disseminated digitally now. Whether that is Lockhart or not, who knows. But likely something will be announced in the next few weeks.

It's all part of the flow of information that MS is doing to keep people engaged with the upcoming new console generation.

Regards,
SB

 

[Proelite]

A or B?

 

[Mskx]

A or B?

I don't think it will have a disc drive at all.

 

[eastmen]

I don't think it will have a disc drive at all.

easy way to save $30 bucks from the bom and push game pass.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

easy way to save $30 bucks from the bom and push game pass.

Microsoft were estimated to be paying $32 for the drive three years ago and it will be close to half that now because there is virtually no demand these chunky read-only drives.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

easy way to save $30 bucks from the bom and push game pass.

How well is XB1 SAD selling? It's all very well saying make a drive-less console, but if the market doesn't want it, it wont sell. If SAD sales are strong, it points to the viability of a download only console. If not, that cost cutting exercise may be counterproductive, rendering a product less desirable then its lower price.

 

[cheapchips]

Microsoft were estimated to be paying $32 for the drive three years ago and it will be close to half that now because there is virtually no demand these chunky read-only drives.

Lack of demand isn't exactly favourable for BOM.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

Lack of demand isn't exactly favourable for BOM.

For Microsoft buying a commodity components (the drive) it is, there is supply and little demand which = discount/cheap. It's cheaper for the vendor to continue making them and sell them at a fraction of the profit than shut down that manufacturing line or switch to something else, then switch it back when you need more drives.

 

[eastmen]

Microsoft were estimated to be paying $32 for the drive three years ago and it will be close to half that now because there is virtually no demand these chunky read-only drives.

Why would prices go down and if so how far can they go down. Optical drives have a lot of moving parts and there is only so far you can reduce price. I don't see the optical drive hitting $15.

Even then so you save $15 right off the bat , you need a smaller power supply , smaller casing , it now weighs less because of all those factors so you pay less in shipping , the console is smaller so you can ship more in the same place , stores can stock more. Your also now getting more of your sales as DD so your making more money there

How well is XB1 SAD selling? It's all very well saying make a drive-less console, but if the market doesn't want it, it wont sell. If SAD sales are strong, it points to the viability of a download only console. If not, that cost cutting exercise may be counterproductive, rendering a product less desirable then its lower price.

The SAD is selling decently. The main problem is the small difference in price and the fact that its really just a XOS with the drive missing, same casing and all. With an all digital series s they should not have a disc version at all. If you want that edition you go with series x.

You save all that money on the drive to drop the price as low as possible and then you tie it to Game pass ultimate.

Take someone like me who has exactly two disc games for my xbox one . I have 4 games for my 360 and 6 original xbox games on disc. Everything else I own is through DD or part of game pass. For me I'd rather save that $15 or $30 or whatever it ultimately ends up being on the disc drive and I am sure there are lots of people out there also. People new to the ecosystem also don't have any preexisting software on the xbox to worry about.