Wireless Routers as Access Points/Extenders?

[Mark]

Here's the deal, I want to give my neighbor access to my cable internet connection while he waits the 2 or 3 weeks for the cable-co to get him hooked up.

My network (LAN1) currently has a DLink DIR-655 wireless router with all the devices connected to it (as in the diagram below). My neighbors network (LAN2) currently doesn't have a router and thus no real network to speak of but would like to share his cable internet (when he gets it) between his laptop, PC, and Xbox 360 (I'm thinking the DLink DIR-615 would suit him fine).

Since he's slightly out of range of my router (I can "see" my network from his basement door with his laptop, but not connect to it), my idea is to get him to buy a wireless router (something he'll need anyway) and have his router act as an access point/extender to connect to my router (and thus connect to my network and the internet).

Since I'm not really all that familiar with wireless networking, I was wondering if this would even work. Can the DIR-615 act as an access point/extender in this manner? If not, which wireless router can (if any)?

http://img377.imageshack.us/my.php?image=wlanlc7.png

 

[Davros]

just buy an arial or you can make a good one with a pringles tube
http://www.instructables.com/id/Wireless-Internet-Cantenna/

 

[RussSchultz]

I don't believe too many routers can be used to extend a wireless network in that fashion.

If they can, they're not very cheap. (I looked into this a few months ago, and ended up just not doing it because it wasn't worth the expense/effort. )

 

[AlphaWolf]

I'm pretty sure you can actually turn a (normal cheap) router into an access point (with a custom firmware I believe) which should have the desired effect.

 

[Bouncing Zabaglione Bros.]

Since I'm not really all that familiar with wireless networking, I was wondering if this would even work. Can the DIR-615 act as an access point/extender in this manner? If not, which wireless router can (if any)?

I don't think those particular D-Link routers can do this. It is a fairly high level functionality, so you either have to pay a lot of money for high end kit, or sneakily increase the functionality of your router with third party firmware. Unfortunately, neither of these routers is listed as compatible with DD-WRT, which is one of the major third-party firmwares that can do this. You can try OpenWRT (more complex, much less user friendly) or Tomato (less features), but check to see if your router is listed as compatible.

Your best bet would be to get something like a couple of the cheap Buffalo routers and put DD-WRT firmware on it, which can do all this kind of stuff fairly easily. They can even boost up the power to give you the range to reach your neighbour. There are other routers that can take DD-WRT if you have access to other models.

Bear in mind that when you use two routers like this to wirelessly extend a network, it tends to lower your wireless performance for your clients too, but you won't know by how much until you try it.

Your other alternative would be to amp up your current transmit power or get a better long range aerial (aerial properties do affect signal propagation quite significantly), and allow your neighbour to connect directly to your router. This is probably simpler for the sake of a few weeks access for your neighbour.

BTW, it's worth noting that your cable provider's AUP very likely explicitly forbids you providing third party access like this from a domestic connection. Make sure your neighbour (a) isn't going to be an ass over your connection that might get you noticed by your ISP, and (b) is primed not to mention to the ISPs support or installatiion staff that he's currently getting a connection from you.

 

[Davros]

or a very long peice of cat5

 

[Mark]

From what I understand, the Linksys WRT54GL can be flashed with DD-WRT which then makes it a simple matter of setting an option to turn it into an AP. The only thing I'm concerned about now is if placing the Linksys/AP at his house (out of range of my router) will work. I'm not sure that overlapping signals makes any sense when you're talking wireless networking. I know range extenders need to actually be in range of the signal they are extending, for example.

Regarding upgrading antennas, that's really more expense than I want to commit to. The router is fine for my purposes using the default antennas, so I'm basically hoping to do this for nothing (other than him buying a router, which as I said will be used in it's intended role when he gets his own cable hooked up).

As for cat5, it would indeed be the cheapest, fastest and most reliable. However, it'd be extremely hard to get it to his house from my house. He's a good 200' away, and his asphalt driveway wrap around back of his house (can't dig it up, obviously). Here's another diagram of my dilemma (I like diagrams!)

http://img146.imageshack.us/my.php?image=wlan2ln8.png

 

[RussSchultz]

ducttape the cat5 to the asphalt.

viola

 

[Bouncing Zabaglione Bros.]

From what I understand, the Linksys WRT54GL can be flashed with DD-WRT which then makes it a simple matter of setting an option to turn it into an AP.

You have to be really careful which one you buy. Linksys models and even versions of the same model can vary dramatically. Cisco didn't want Linksys products cannibalising their corporate sales, so have progressively degraded their SOHO products to the point where the DD-WRT people call them crippled and not recommended for DD-WRT. There are list of recommended and compatible routers on the DD-WRT routers, but I'd recommend sticking to the Broadcom and Atheros based units, as they seem to be the favourite ones of the developers. Just make sure you don't get something with small flashram and ram so you can use the standard firmwares, rather than the stripped down micro versions.

The only thing I'm concerned about now is if placing the Linksys/AP at his house (out of range of my router) will work. I'm not sure that overlapping signals makes any sense when you're talking wireless networking. I know range extenders need to actually be in range of the signal they are extending, for example.

You'll have to be in range for both routers. Each side needs to send and receive for them to talk to each other, just like they do for a laptop, but obviously the router's range should be better than a laptop. That's why you might need a better aerial, or at least DD-WRT's ability to change timing and output power if your hardware supports it. It might be easier if you can at least get a clear line of sight without going through walls. If the two routers can see each other through windows, it might make the difference. Going by your map, moving your router from the further end of your house to the end closer to your neighbour might make a very big difference.

If you can't move your router, you could get a third router for the south end of your house and use that as a wireless bridges/WDS repeater to reach the router at your neighbours house.

You wont' really know for sure until you try it, and there are several option you can try with DD-WRT (WDS, client/bridged/repeater modes) along with fiddling with different variable to make it work. However, if you're out of range even after upping the power and fiddling with various settings, there's not much more you can do without better aerials.

In general though, both ends will have to reach each other. Both ends reaching the middle won't work. Most of the tools should take that into account, so if you see a connection, you should be able to use it, even if slowly. However, it's possible that you can see a signal because that end is chucking out a strong signal, but you can't connect because your end can't transmit at the same power levels. You can "hear" the other end because it's shouting, but you can't talk to it because you can only talk quietly, and the other end is shouting too loudly anyway.

 

[Davros]

are you on the same mains ring ?

 

[willardjuice]

Heh, if what I read is correct, D-Link used to support WDS on the 655 (probably the 615 too), but no longer in their newer firmwares. Wonder why.

 

[the maddman]

Heh, if what I read is correct, D-Link used to support WDS on the 655 (probably the 615 too), but no longer in their newer firmwares. Wonder why.

Most likely because using WDS either ties you to WEP. A few vendors have "AES" extensions, but most that I've seen work by NEVER CHANGING THE KEY. WPA is secure because it rotates the actual AES key often.

Anyways, a WRT54GL flashed with DD-WRT can be put into "Client Bridge" mode where it will bridge the ethernet ports onto a wireless net. That's probably what you want. The radio in a WRT is pretty decent too, if you put it up higher (maybe in an attic?) and run cat5 down from there you might get something that works without buying a larger antenna.

 

[swaaye]

1) set up the router's wireless settings
2) disable DHCP
3) plug WAN into LAN switch

I've done this on occasion and it works. You can reconfigure the router's options by setting up a manual IP on the PC, too, to get yourself into its subnet.

Of course, this is a sort of hack. As others have said, a WRT54G with 3rd party firmware such as DDWRT can be configured to do this the "proper" way.