Interesting. If head sets are going to progress at this pace I can't see me sticking with the original Oculus for long. And I haven't even got my hand sets yet!
Windows 10 VR standard announced. IHVs creating headsets from $300
- Thread starter eastmen
- Start date
Interesting. If head sets are going to progress at this pace I can't see me sticking with the original Oculus for long. And I haven't even got my hand sets yet!
Ike Turner
Veteran
Yup progress is faster than expected as I'm sure nobody saw this Microsoft stuff coming this fast (Intel's project ALOY announced in September kinda made me think that something was brewing but I didn't expect MS to license their tech. Matter of fact Project Alloy uses Intel's own depth cams). All in all it's good news for the VR industry but early adopters should keep in mind that they are simply funding and acting as free evangelist for the tech... the Rift/Vive/PSVR you just bought will get old real fast..
Valve's lighthouse is still the de facto best tracking system but a flood of low/mid-range inside-out Kinect powered HMDs will surely fragment the whole ecosystem for a while. The inside-out tech is really good but still not there yet it term of speed and accuracy (I have extensively used HoloLens in the past weeks.... and you are fucked with reflective surfaces..so using this with Scorpio won't be a good idea as the TV screen will mess up the tracking..) and there's no good way to have hands/controllers tracked with those thing unless you add cams/Lighthouses which is Kinda defying the purpose of the whole thing...
Tbh, as cool as perfectly working inside out tracking would be, it's not high on the list of issues fo VR right now. I've been saying it for months but resolution and field of view are VR's 2 biggest issues for the moment. I'm not going to feel a great need to upgrade until one or both get a significant upgrade. And a significant upgrade in resolution (which is the number 1 issue) will struggle to be of much benefit without pupil tracking foveated rendering. So that for me is what will truly usher in the 'next generation' of headsets that make it worthwhile upgrading from the current.
i do think this is a good idea, if anything i think it will defragment the pc vr market, pretty quickly.
thought that Ms should use the outcome of all that Kinect and HoloLens r&d for vr also, even if it means partnerships as it means additional roi.
makes sense, especially for Scorpio which will need a cheaper than rift but higher quality than ps vr hmd.
wonder if there's something happening in December when their going to reveal more details? Otherwise the oems would've just put out press releases with specs surely?
thought that Ms should use the outcome of all that Kinect and HoloLens r&d for vr also, even if it means partnerships as it means additional roi.
makes sense, especially for Scorpio which will need a cheaper than rift but higher quality than ps vr hmd.
wonder if there's something happening in December when their going to reveal more details? Otherwise the oems would've just put out press releases with specs surely?
Yep, resolution and FOV. HDR support and improved handling of the lower brightness range would also go a long way to making VR look less like a screen in front of your face. I'm going to bet that we'll be leaning on tricks like ASW a lot more to maintain performance for the next iteration of HMD displays though, and will probably see stratification in eye buffer sizes to keep the existing VR-ready system configurations supported with higher resolution headsets. Foveated rendering and everything that goes along with that will need to sit in the oven a good while longer.
Anarchist4000
Veteran
I'd imagine effects like ASW will see use for a lot more than just VR. ATW/ASW on standard panel games could go a long way to improve the experience. I still like the Doom example where they had static geometry and dynamic in different render targets. From there ATW/ASW could composite the two. That seems far more powerful than the foveated rendering examples we've seen so far. Instead of lower resolution at the sides, you have lower resolution at distance.
I'm pretty sure that there's at least one phone that has an HDR display.
Any idea what the quality is like, refresh rate, ghosting, comparative cost, etc?
With games starting to support HDR it would be a huge shame if some headsets don't also.
I think that would make a big visual difference, without needing new tech etc.
Any idea what the quality is like, refresh rate, ghosting, comparative cost, etc?
With games starting to support HDR it would be a huge shame if some headsets don't also.
I think that would make a big visual difference, without needing new tech etc.
Silent_Buddha
Legend
Some Samsungs can display up to 1000 nits when they explode.
Good point, the low brightness handling has some big issues at the moment. I thought it might just be the OR but I've heard people in the PSVR threads mention it too. Almost like a fabric pattern that can appear in low brightness (but not pure black) situations. Strangely it doesn't seem to show up consistently though. That, and those light ray/smears that may just be unique to OR.
Ike Turner
Veteran
True blacks are now a thing on the ViVe after the latest SteamVR update.. but no one seems to know if it's a SteamVR/drivers "Bug" or "Feature" because it was never mentioned in any changelog and some users are not seeing it...so yeah nobody really knows yet but those that have it can clearly see that the OLED panels are finally working as they should (black = pixels Off)..
are vr panels custom panels?
assumed they were basically using mobile ones to keep costs down.
the ridiculous thing is, PSVR do able to display real black (or at least very black black).
in some games, sony forgot to change black to grey on the brand splash screen. on some other title, the brand splash screen have black background, surrounded by the normal grey background.
so PSVR do able to display blacks. but for some reason, all games runs with black = grey.
maybe the screen have problem in displaying motion when black = black?
or the black is not uniform? (PSVR true black = lots of blotchy ink-like blacks on screen)
Silent_Buddha
Legend
Might be the fact that most games are calibrated for displays where black = 16 and not 0 as most displays don't change between 0-16 as they can't resolve those differences in black levels. Since that's the case, it may have just carried over to VR games. So a display that's capable of lower than 16 would show gray when the game calls for black.
Regards,
SB
Yeah the behavior looks very similar with TV in wrong RGB range level
Sounds like something that will hopefully be solved on the software side in time, rather than having to rely on a new hardware solution. Thinking about it, I do only recall it being present on the more indie type projects. Not so much on the big headline games.
http://www.theverge.com/2016/11/21/13697268/microsoft-windows-10-vr-headsets-minimum-specs
More info to come this Dec
More info to come this Dec
Listing the min spec for an OS's shell doesn't seem like particularly useful information to anyone. It's low weight by necessity, so naturally pretty much any hardware can run it. I'll be curious to see whether Microsoft will continue to follow the typical PC industry practice of listing vague blanket min specs and then washing their hands of any responsibility to how polished the overall product experience is for the end user. Oculus and Valve chose to bite the bullet by being upfront about the real world performance cost for VR content. It'd be a shame if Microsoft and their hardware partners use that as a marketing opportunity to imply that what they're offering is the same, only cheaper and without any significant hardware requirements.
Silent_Buddha
Legend
I don't think that's so much min specs for VR as it is for Windows Holographic. IE - the system used to run HoloLens (Cherry Trail) is significantly weaker than what is required for most (probably all) VR applications. That makes sense as what is rendered for Windows Holographic thus far has been relatively lightweight due to the limited FOV of the device. IE - not much is being rendered at any given moment in most cases.
Then again, on the flip side, VR in Windows isn't going to be only about games. It may be that for the VR integration with the new 3D Microsoft Paint, that the system requirements are very low. That also makes sense as not all applications that take advantage of VR necessarily need the graphical oomph that a full blown VR game would need.
Oculus and HTC/Valve were going for a more than bare bones VR gaming experience and the requirements show. But for more simplistic VR applications that may not be gaming related, you probably don't need something that meets the minimum requirements of the Rift or Vive.
What this means is that for Gamers, it's business as usual. Your system may be fine to run Windows, but it's not necessarily fine for running a lot of games. Replace with Windows VR and VR games.
Regards,
SB
cheapchips
Veteran
The latest dev event had a HD620 is minimum gpu spec. I guess that's more powerful than GearVR/Daydream, and Hololens I guess. No real info on what will happen with input and games yet.