Will AMD's Mantle revolutionise PC gaming? *spawn

Discussion in 'PC Hardware, Software and Displays' started by Cjail, Sep 26, 2013.

  1. Cjail

    Cjail Fool
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  2. Arwin

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    I think this should get its own topic. I agree that this is likely to be huge, especially with the convolution of the resurgence of OpenGL due to mobile development, Mac and SteamOS on the one hand, and the ability to completely bypass DirectX now on the other, which will no doubt be done by all the major game engines. Particularly SteamOS and this combined are likely to accellerate matters here.
     
  3. Cjail

    Cjail Fool
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    I don't agree with what Carmack said..
    The similarities between consoles and PC are growing but it's happening thanks to both sides.
    PS4 and XBo have" PC like" architectures which I take as a way to build bridges between the two worlds, pass me the expression, not as an act of hostility.
    Why should Sony and MS be hostile to Mantle when they in part created the condition for it and ultimately could also befit form it?!
    Also given the collaboration between Nvidia and Valve on StemOS I would not be surprise to see Steam Boxes powered by Nvidia GPU and not by AMD.

    I don't see a "worlds at war" scenario between PC and consoles.
     
    #3 Cjail, Sep 26, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 26, 2013
  4. baten

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    IMO it's a given that Nvidia has something similar to Mantle tech and they will push it in the new steamboxes. They have been working with valve since over a year now to develop SteamOS
     
  5. Npl

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    And we are back to the days of Glide/metal/Direct3D/OpenGL...
    Unless Mantle can easily adopted by all major players and thus replace Direct3D as hardware-independent standard, I dont see this happening at a larger scale.
    How many different future versions of Mantle will be coming from AMD alone, if the API is tied to their GCN architecture.
     
  6. liolio

    liolio Aquoiboniste
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    We don't know much now though it has already been adopted by EA and possibly the finest engine around, it is quite a F good start if you ask me. Now how it will turn out in the long run is obviously unknown, but it could hardly have a better start.
    It is unknown if it is tied to GCN architecture, we just know previous arch won't be supported which is different. It is unknown if it open or not or to which extend. We will have to wait till November to learn more :(
     
  7. Dominik D

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    We've been there for years now. Most engines have many rendering backends using D3D, OGL, OGLES, libGCM and what not. One more, if straightforward for developers to use, is not going to change much.
     
  8. Ekim

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    Anandtech thinks Mantle == Xbox One Api
    http://www.anandtech.com/show/7371/understanding-amds-mantle-a-lowlevel-graphics-api-for-gcn

     
  9. zupallinere

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    Interesting. Interestingly enough Digital Foundry has a bit of a different take:

    http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-could-amd-mantle-revolutionise-pc-gaming

    On top of that DF suggests that if Mantle gets pulled into the Steam Box both MS and Sony will be facing competition they didn't envision.

    One of the big "wins" you get with an APU would be drawcall efficiency and now with Mantle you could get better performance from discrete GPUs hanging out there on the PCI-e bus and as a result might the push on APUs be a bit more blunted ?? Still cheaper of course :wink:
     
  10. fehu

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    all this talk about mantle on the one, but it looks a better solution for sony rather than for microsoft that want to have control of the api their console is using, and maybe facilitate the porting to dx and not to an api that runs on linux and mac too
     
  11. swaaye

    swaaye Entirely Suboptimal
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    It's more about whether or not you can play everything optimally with just one PC 3D card. That was the problem in the '90s. Every hardware vendor had their groovy to-the-metal API. Direct3D sucked. Almost nothing ran OpenGL well.

    Things like Physx and CUDA have been causing problems already. Now we're slipping into the graphics themselves again.
     
  12. Scott_Arm

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    If anything it is an incentive for Microsoft to review their driver model and their API. A little competition isn't a bad thing. OpenGL isn't exactly pushing Microsoft to improve. I'll be curious to see what kind of benefits this really has. If you can get some performance gains and some exclusive rendering techniques, then that will be a big selling point. To be honest, I'm more curious about how much of a benefit it can have on the low to mid-range GCN cards rather than the high end ones. If this can make Battlefield 4 perform better on a low spec machine, then that could be a huge win. That's assuming there is also good stability and not OS issues. I still don't understand how you can get low-level access to the GPU and CPU without potentially screwing up some important mechanisms of the underlying OS, like scheduling, especially on the CPU.
     
  13. MfA

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    AMD is competing with NVIDIA to see who can screw Microsoft hardest after the console contracts are signed.
     
  14. Tchock

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    I don't see it that way. Not if Mantle branches out into the high performance niche for flagship titles, leaving DirectX to be the general API that is stable and easier to deploy on. I wouldn't even be surprised if AMD had MS' go-ahead with regards to this.
     
  15. Dominik D

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    These are completely different stories. Old metal APIs were quirky, buggy, depended heavily on HW implementation of "stuff". Most cards today have fairly solid drivers that deal with well established rendering pipeline, developers have lots and lots of data to draw from when figuring out how one would build API to optimize performance and not make developers' lives harder. Compute on GPU although astonishing as it is not as mature as rasterization is. Domain-specific accelerators (PhysX and stuff) are also trying to do something new, it's harder to steer efforts like these in the right direction. What I guess I'm trying to say is this: graphics are mature enough to make this seemingly disastrous split and not kill anyone in the process, IMO.
     
  16. Arwin

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    Of course there is a risk that for less performance critical stuff, OpenGL will start to be used more, having an advantage of portability to tablets, linux, mac, etc. The risk that DirectX will end up being marginalized is at the very least not decreasing.
     
  17. liquidboy

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    AMD Radeon seems to prefer AnandTech's take - https://twitter.com/AMDRadeon/status/383349757428506624
     
  18. fellix

    fellix Hey, You!
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    :roll:
    http://www.pcgameshardware.de/Grafi...D-Low-Level-API-Mantle-Battlefield-4-1090085/
     
  19. swaaye

    swaaye Entirely Suboptimal
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    Sounds to me like there's no chance of competitors considering adoption of it.
     
  20. Jawed

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    Apparently a single 290X was driving the 5760x1080 live play of BF4 Angry Sea and no one said it was running in Mantle mode.

    So, erm, it seems PC gamers don't need Mantle :razz:
     
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