Why would anyone deal with Nvidia again in the console space? *spawn*

Discussion in 'Console Industry' started by Rootax, Oct 22, 2018.

  1. Rootax

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    We know Sony is working on Zen for some times now. And given the ps3 experience, I doubt Sony want to deal with nVidia again...
     
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  2. Azhrei

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    Sony and Microsoft can get whoever they want, just as you said Intel is not cheap, and neither is nVidia for that matter. For reasons of backwards compatibility which I'm sure is a big consideration, going with AMD makes more sense. Also they've had a strong working relationship with them for several generations now next to the negative experience they've each had with nVidia, so unless AMD is asking for ridiculous prices or doesn't have what either company wants (unlikely with Zen cores and a cheaper than nVidia but still decent gpu) it just makes sense for both companies to look to AMD for their next systems.
     
  3. BoMbY

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    This was a month ago. And it isn't late, the rumors are very premature.
     
  4. pharma

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    The same was probably true after 2009 Intel settlement payment to AMD, but both seem to have put that behind them. Not saying it's likely to happen, but Nintendo's Switch success would be motivation alone to realize other options might be available to Sony.
     
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  5. Rootax

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    Yeah but nVidia sold an old and underclocked SoC to Nintendo, nothing fancy. I think the most important thing for Nintendo was in this case the devs tools, which is maybe more important than the hardware for a mobile console, for nintendo.
     
  6. ToTTenTranz

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    Some here claim that Sony's deals with nvidia weren't that bad, and the lower-than-expected performance originated in a late implementation of G70, which resulted in a number of architectural inefficiencies like separate memory pools using distinct RAM types. (I still think Sony may have not been very happy with nvidia releasing their groundbreaking G80 cards just months before the PS3's release though).

    Microsoft on the other hand... Xbox team's deals with nvidia resulted in very long and costly lawsuit so that bridge may still be burned. Out of testimonies from pretty much everyone who deals with nvidia, from game to Linux developers, they seem to maintain a super aggressive attitude almost a status quo.
    And Nintendo apparently isn't super happy with TX1 being so easily hackable that people have been pirating Switch games for a long time and they can't seem to solve that even with new hardware revisions (let alone firmware updates). Compare that to Microsoft and Sony whose hackers still haven't been successful after 5 years of trying, despite the PC-like architectures.


    What does the AMD-Intel settlement have to do with nvidia?
     
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  7. pharma

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    Nothing. The context was financial/technological benefit usually has precedence over any
    disagreements two companies may have had in the past.
     
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  8. A1xLLcqAgt0qc2RyMz0y

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    Sony came begging to Nvidia to help them very late in the design cycle when their plans for doing all the video on the CELL processor turned out to be a complete disaster.

    So Nvidia proposed what they had at that time and probably what they were working on but Sony picked what they wanted from Nvidia. If you have complaints with what Sony put in the PS3 take it up with Sony.

    The probable reason for what Sony picked was because of the scramble to get hardware into game developers hands ASAP so they could have games ready for launch.
     
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  9. BRiT

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    Even with that, Nvidia lowered the speed of the GPU twice in the PS3 before it was released. That you can fault Nvidia.
     
  10. Malo

    Malo Yak Mechanicum
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    Wouldn't that be related to thermal requirements?
     
  11. AlBran

    AlBran Ferro-Fibrous
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    Seems likely (if referring to the 550->500MHz core clock & 700 -> 650 MHz GDDR3)
     
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  12. A1xLLcqAgt0qc2RyMz0y

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    No that fault again is with Sony and their thermal constraints. Again take the problem back to where it belongs: Sony.
     
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  13. Silent_Buddha

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    Neither of those statements can be proved definitively.

    Didn Sony give NV a thermal target and NV weren't able to meet it?

    Did NV give Sony thermal projections for their chips and then their chips failed to maintain performance at those thermal levels?

    Did the chips perform as NV advertised and Sony's console suffered harder thermal constraints than they expected?

    Was there a combination of all of the above?

    No one outside of NV and Sony will ever know.

    And finally, as this was when the industry was transitioning from leaded solder to lead free solder. Did NV's chips fail under a thermal load that was perfectly fine with leaded solder, but not suitable for lead free solder? At which point it gets much harder to place blame as many companies experienced problems with the transition to lead free solder.

    Regards,
    SB
     
  14. A1xLLcqAgt0qc2RyMz0y

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    FACT: Sony came begging to Nvidia to help them very late in the design cycle when their plans for doing all the video on the CELL processor turned out to be a complete disaster.

    The PS3 design along with the thermal budget was set long before Sony determined that the CELL processor could not do software video and perform at any reasonable way that is why Sony came begging.

    NO
     
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  15. ToTTenTranz

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    You do know that writing "fact:" in caps before the statement without providing a shred of proof doesn't make anyone take that post (or the one before saying the exact same thing) any more seriously, right?

    Nor writing "no" in caps afterwards...
     
  16. Silent_Buddha

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    Ah, I see, you were on the PS3 design team then?

    Regards,
    SB
     
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  17. orangpelupa

    orangpelupa Elite Bug Hunter
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    the benefit if they choose to use Nvidia would be nvidia's dev team, i suspect. If i remember correctly (probably not), nvidia even ported their exclusive-proprietary PhysX from exclusively running on GPU to be able to run on Cell's SPE. They also made it well optimized, unlike the PC version where CPU PhysX performance is gimped

    actually since june or july, un-hackable Nintendo swtich already floats on the market.

    although its still quite easy to get hackable Switches if you buy in-person or if you buy online and the seller willing to help you look for certain serial number.
     
  18. milk

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    Wasn't there a book that disclosed a lot of insider info on the design and engineering of those consoles? Anybody here read it?
     
  19. orangpelupa

    orangpelupa Elite Bug Hunter
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    Yeah there was something like that. It also explains that the xenon actually is a sister of cell, but with different formation (xenon have 3 PPE,, no spe. While cell have 1 PPE and tons of spe)
     
  20. AlBran

    AlBran Ferro-Fibrous
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    "The Race For A New Game Machine: Creating the Chips Inside the XBox and the Playstation 3 "
     
    #20 AlBran, Oct 26, 2018
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2018
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