Why has the xbox not been emulated up to now?

Discussion in 'Console Technology' started by Commenter, Jan 24, 2016.

  1. TheAlSpark

    TheAlSpark Moderator
    Moderator Legend

    Joined:
    Feb 29, 2004
    Messages:
    21,440
    Likes Received:
    6,903
    Location:
    ಠ_ಠ
    Just gimme 4K60 remasters.

    Legit surprised that Team Ninja hasn't announced Ninja Gaiden duology. There was no 3rd game.
     
    #21 TheAlSpark, Jan 25, 2016
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2016
    bunge likes this.
  2. ToTTenTranz

    Legend Veteran Subscriber

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2008
    Messages:
    10,847
    Likes Received:
    5,420
    What do you mean there's no 3rd game? Ninja Gaiden 3 released in 2012.
    The game was a failure, but it exists.
     
  3. TheAlSpark

    TheAlSpark Moderator
    Moderator Legend

    Joined:
    Feb 29, 2004
    Messages:
    21,440
    Likes Received:
    6,903
    Location:
    ಠ_ಠ
    That's what they want you to believe!
     
    digitalwanderer and BadTB25 like this.
  4. Davros

    Legend

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2004
    Messages:
    15,709
    Likes Received:
    2,854
    why? consoles dont support that format.

    ps: maybe this is common knowledge
    there is a ps3 emulator called RPCS3
    a wii-u emulator called Cemu
     
  5. TheAlSpark

    TheAlSpark Moderator
    Moderator Legend

    Joined:
    Feb 29, 2004
    Messages:
    21,440
    Likes Received:
    6,903
    Location:
    ಠ_ಠ
    Super sampling. ;)
     
    Globalisateur likes this.
  6. Exophase

    Veteran

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2010
    Messages:
    2,406
    Likes Received:
    430
    Location:
    Cleveland, OH
    PS2 emulation is not and has never been anywhere close to the level of accuracy you described, where cache state/timing, bus interaction, etc is emulated properly. It's nowhere remotely close to the standard of games not being able to detect that they're running on an emulator through evaluating timing. Pretty much nothing more complex than SNES is (and even on higan there may still be ways to detect you're not running on hardware if you're determined enough)

    I write console emulators. Getting perfect accuracy is a great goal but people also just want to play games, and for the more complex consoles you won't be able to get them anywhere close to perfect on existing hardware while still running at the right speed.
     
  7. swaaye

    swaaye Entirely Suboptimal
    Legend

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2003
    Messages:
    8,567
    Likes Received:
    652
    Location:
    WI, USA
    I'm probably just remembering wrong. Project Unreality didn't get one?

    I might be mixing Nintendo up with bloodthirsty 3dfx. :)
     
  8. DSoup

    DSoup meh
    Legend Veteran Subscriber

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2007
    Messages:
    12,065
    Likes Received:
    7,250
    Location:
    London, UK
    Out of curiosity, what emulators have you written?
     
  9. Exophase

    Veteran

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2010
    Messages:
    2,406
    Likes Received:
    430
    Location:
    Cleveland, OH
    Maybe they did, it was around the same time as UltraHLE. Not sure why they'd have bothered seeing as how Project Unreality had very little progress, AFAIK it only showed an opening framebuffer logo from one commercial game. If Nintendo was aggressively going against emulators with legal threats I think it was at best limited to N64 emulators over a year or two.

    Emulators for GBA (gpSP), PC-Engine (Temper), Nintendo DS (DraStic), and the GPU part of a PS1 emulator (PCSX-ReARMed). They're all targeting mobile platforms and ARM in particular. I've done some other stuff that didn't really merit releases.
     
    #29 Exophase, Jan 25, 2016
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2016
    milk, Lalaland, DSoup and 2 others like this.
  10. Davros

    Legend

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2004
    Messages:
    15,709
    Likes Received:
    2,854
    I just tried a ps2 emulator and it was slow
    you really need an top of the range intel cpu running at 4.5ghz for 1080@60hz
     
  11. DSoup

    DSoup meh
    Legend Veteran Subscriber

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2007
    Messages:
    12,065
    Likes Received:
    7,250
    Location:
    London, UK
    Some aspects of the PS2 are 'expensive' to emulate. The PS2's bus to DRAM is 2,560-bits wide. Think about that for a moment, this is five times wider than a Titan X. The bus is split as one1,024-bit write bus, one 1,024 read bus and one 512-bit read/write bus and some visual effects only work if this is emulated properly on a per-cycle basis.

    edit: typo.
     
    #31 DSoup, Jan 29, 2016
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2016
    Lalaland likes this.
  12. Lalaland

    Regular

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2013
    Messages:
    596
    Likes Received:
    266
    2,560 bit bus? Bloody hell no wonder they could pull off multiple layers of transparencies to beat the band on the PS2
     
  13. Shifty Geezer

    Shifty Geezer uber-Troll!
    Moderator Legend

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2004
    Messages:
    42,949
    Likes Received:
    15,042
    Location:
    Under my bridge
    Wasn't it the death of the 'bit wars'? Prior to that we had 16, 32, then 64 bit with some claiming to be 64 bit with dubious qualifications. Then along comes PS2 and 2560 bits and everyone shuts up about it!
     
  14. DSoup

    DSoup meh
    Legend Veteran Subscriber

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2007
    Messages:
    12,065
    Likes Received:
    7,250
    Location:
    London, UK
    That may have been the Atari Jaguar which Atari marketed as 64-bit because it had two 32-bit processors - Tom and Jerry(!)
     
  15. Shifty Geezer

    Shifty Geezer uber-Troll!
    Moderator Legend

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2004
    Messages:
    42,949
    Likes Received:
    15,042
    Location:
    Under my bridge
    People can read about the various explanations. Certainly the CPU wasn't 64 bit. Curiously as a 68000 it's tooted as a 32 bit processor, while the ST and Amiga with the same CPU were considered 16 bit machines. Some Jaguar processors were 64 bit though. Ultimately, a bit metric was considered important, like the old MHz metric, until finally something laid the smack down and people moved on (to find some other number to crow about : Mega/gigaflops - I'm looking at you!).
     
    Lalaland likes this.
  16. DSoup

    DSoup meh
    Legend Veteran Subscriber

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2007
    Messages:
    12,065
    Likes Received:
    7,250
    Location:
    London, UK
    The 68000 is indeed a 32-bit processor but it has a 24-bit address range and a 16-bit databus and back in the day manufacturers like Motorola were honest about stuff like this so it was marketed as a 16/32bit processor. Most people look at the internal architecture - the internal datapaths, register sizes and data sizes the CPU instructoons can handle :yep2: To give them credit, Sony never tried marketing the PS2 a 2,560-bit console!
     
    Gubbi likes this.
  17. Gubbi

    Veteran

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2002
    Messages:
    3,580
    Likes Received:
    980
    Hardware guys might consider the 68000 a 16bit CPU. The data bus is 16bit, and the ALU handled 16 bits at a time (32 bit ops took twice as long). However the registers were 32bits, the programming model is 32bit, hence the architecture is 32bit.

    The physical bit width is an implementation detail. Otherwise we'd have:
    1. 8088 (from the original PC) would be a 8bit CPU while the 8086 would be 16bit.
    2. 386SX would be a 16 bit CPU.
    3. Exynos 7420 (Cortex 4xA57+4xA53) would be 32bit processors.

    Ie. plainly wrong.

    Cheers
     
    DSoup and TheAlSpark like this.
  18. Commenter

    Newcomer

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2010
    Messages:
    234
    Likes Received:
    17
    Weak correlations are not necessarily all bad. There was a clear difference in 8 bit and 16 bit machines, and 16 bit machines and 32 bit ones, so it was a useful metric at some point. Likewise with Megahertz in the early pentium days, and err Gigaflops.
     
  19. Commenter

    Newcomer

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2010
    Messages:
    234
    Likes Received:
    17
    I'll add, It's only when they become less and less correlated that it becomes more misleading than useful. Like in the Pentium 4 and Athlon days.
     
  20. Exophase

    Veteran

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2010
    Messages:
    2,406
    Likes Received:
    430
    Location:
    Cleveland, OH
    I don't really want to beat a dead horse here but what games and what effects could only work if the bus width is emulated properly on a per-cycle basis?

    Nowhere in any PS2 emulator does the interface width to eDRAM play a role.
     
Loading...

Share This Page

  • About Us

    Beyond3D has been around for over a decade and prides itself on being the best place on the web for in-depth, technically-driven discussion and analysis of 3D graphics hardware. If you love pixels and transistors, you've come to the right place!

    Beyond3D is proudly published by GPU Tools Ltd.
Loading...