Why do current consoles reserve cores for OS instead of using a scheduler?

Discussion in 'Console Technology' started by Adonisds, Nov 12, 2019.

  1. Adonisds

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    As the title says. Why not use instead a task scheduler just like a PC does? And then say to devs that OS functions are expected to use up to X of processing power, so that they should make the games with that worse case scenario in mind. But the scheduler would allow a bit more of performance available for games when the OS functions are not in full load.

    Assume that X is a really smart way to measure processing power for this case. I don't know what that would be. Suggestions?

    Do you expect next-gen consoles to also reserve cores for OS or do you think they will use a different approach?
     
  2. BRiT

    BRiT (╯°□°)╯
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    They need to be deterministic and responsive.

    In some situations, attempting to take measurements and adjust based on that is more troublesome and has more of a negative performance impact than going with the simpler approaches.
     
  3. Adonisds

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    Could you please expand? I'm not sure I understood it all and it would be really nice to hear the reasons why you believe that

    During game development they could easily constantly simulate the worst case scenarios for when the OS is using a lot of processing power, so it doesn't seem like using a scheduler would make development much more complex
     
    #3 Adonisds, Nov 12, 2019
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 12, 2019
  4. BRiT

    BRiT (╯°□°)╯
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    The reason I believe that is because it's the reality of the situation.

    I completely disagree with everything you say starting with "could easily". Development is complicated enough without having to deal with non-deterministic aspects like what you are proposing,
     
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  5. TheAlSpark

    TheAlSpark Moderator
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    Predictable cache management?

    Zen threads are probably way more than they need for the OS (bottlenecked elsewhere), but I'd be interested to see if they have a selection of CPU clock profiles available to developers to suit their engine's needs or for specific situations; not everything is multi-threaded the same way, and typically it's the first 2-4 threads that are heavier in need versus the distribution of the rest across 12+ threads (for example), so there are TDP implications there (and would have to be taken into consideration when offering/selecting a particular fixed profile for the game, which may just mean a lot more QA and other complications). The simplest example is allowing the CPU to go full bore on a couple threads during loading/decompressing while the rest of the 12+ threads are sitting relatively idle.

    (12 is just a random number)
     
  6. Adonisds

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    There could be a mixed approach: reserve 7 cores exclusively for the games, and the games are developed assuming that's all they are gonna have, but allow the 8th core to be used partially in games when it's not fully being used by the OS. Isn't making this possible similar in complexity to the boost mode of PS4 Pro and the higher clock speeds of Xbox One S compared to the ordinary Xbox One?
     
  7. TheAlSpark

    TheAlSpark Moderator
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    #7 TheAlSpark, Nov 12, 2019
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2019
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  8. orangpelupa

    orangpelupa Elite Bug Hunter
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    Uh, PS4 pro system menu already slower than a 3ds.

    Don't give Sony another idea to make it even slower
     
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  9. Rodéric

    Rodéric a.k.a. Ingenu
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    It's simple, works well and guarantees responsiveness, why waste time and energy on something more complicated that may not even achieve similar results?
    Really everything should always follow K.I.S.S. (Keep It Simple, Stupid)
     
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  10. PSman1700

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    Non-pro is even less snappy. Very slow OS indeed, can't be anything else then the cpu.
     
  11. orangpelupa

    orangpelupa Elite Bug Hunter
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    even when i use 256GB SSD its still stutter and goes slow (especially the SHARE menu).

    the even weirder thing is that Sony also tied a bunch of stuff to internet. So it can stutters, hangs, when waiting for stuff to load from the internet. They should have put those async.
     
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  12. PSman1700

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    I'm on a base model, there's ot much trouble browsing my games (though not snappy), but doing anything while a game is open isn't a modern experience, in the way it becomes slow. The internet explorer could aswell not have been there as it is use-less for about anything.
     
  13. Mihailjones

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    Weird, because my experiences from my pro, OG and maybe 4-5 units total have been that PS4 OS is fast and good. Some functions take time like pressing share to save gameplay, but I would not call the OS slow in general.

    IMO it is really good and logical. Comparing to xbox OS it is a heaven, xbox OS is just so messy and difficult to find stuff(havent been using one in many years so dunno how it is now)
     
  14. PSman1700

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    Maybe it depends what your doing, and what your used to.
     
  15. see colon

    see colon All Ham & No Potatos
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    That's an interface issue on Xbox, though. Sony's issues are performance. If you are in game and hit the home button, Xbox one's home screen is basically as fast as if you had just booted the system while Playstation's is noticeably slower.
     
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  16. PSman1700

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    I guess os performance won't be an issue next gen.
     
  17. tuna

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    Young people are so optimistic :)
     
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