Which is easier? 360 software BC of XBox or PS3 software BC of PS2?

Discussion in 'Console Technology' started by Shogmaster, Feb 6, 2007.

  1. Shogmaster

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    The title says it all. All you big brained types please explain why you think so for us small brain types. Muchas Gracias.
     
  2. DarkRage

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    Hard to say.

    From an architectural point of view, xbox should be easier.
    However, the gap in power between PS2 and PS3 is bigger than between xbox platforms, and it should make it easier for brute and inefficient approaches.

    So, maybe, "it depends..."

    Muchas de nada.
     
  3. DJ12

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    Two completely different approaches.

    Of the two the PS3s solution is far harder as they are attempting to emulate in full the entire PS2 in software, whereas MS release a "fix" for a top title so the new hardware can interpret the old software.

    When Sony get the emulator up to speed, just about everything will work without further input from Sony, but MS will have to continue releasing "fixes" every time they want to add another game to the BC list.

    In the long run it would probably be easier to have gone down the full emulation route, but in the short term the "fixes" MS release are easier, but as I said, they will have to keep doing it on a game by game basis until they cannot be bothered with BC anymore.
     
  4. Cheezdoodles

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    PS3 uses hardware emulation, it has a PS2 CPU+GPU inside
     
  5. StefanS

    StefanS meandering Velosoph
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    I think the thread creator wants to know about soft emulating PS2 because Sony could reduce and intends to reduce costs by removing the PS2 parts.
     
  6. Hale

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    PS2 on PS3 is hard due to EDRAM?
     
  7. DJ12

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    At the minute, it is widely known that Sony will be ditching this solution at the earliest opportunity.

    They haven't had a team of coders in Wales working on an emulator for years for nothing.
     
  8. archie4oz

    archie4oz ea_spouse is H4WT!
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    By itself, no. But how it's used, yes that poses some problems. Both the 360 and the PS3 share the problem of their predecessors having hardware features/functions that aren't implemented in the successor hardware. That being said some are relatively easy to solve, while others may require a little more chicanery.

    The thing with the GS is that measures for achieving high performance on it are generally diametrically opposite of what you'd do on a GPU like RSX. In a sense it's less about emulating and more about interpreting the developer's intent.

    Actually it's more SCE folks all over. I can gaurantee you it's not just SCE guys in Wales working on it...
     
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  9. Fu3lFr3nzy

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    I was wondering (not that it has anything to do directly with the subject), when PS3 finally ships without the EE+GS, will BC be installed in every retail PS3's HDD because obviously people without internet connections cant go online and download the patch.

    Or is it gonna go with the X360 route, and either you connect with XBL(PNP), or download and burn the patch to a CD to use it :|
     
  10. Carl B

    Carl B Friends call me xbd
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    It'll be in firmware; patches and hard drives won't have anything to do with it.
     
  11. Dregun

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    I would imagine that since the emulation is going to be "emulation" instead of "patches" that new hardware will just play the game. Those units that still have the GS+EE are going to keep doing it in hardware while the machines without them are going to do it in software automatically. I could be wrong but I see no reason for sony to release new firmware to disable the GS+EE to switch to software emulation if its not needed. It's not like they can turn on software emulation and suddenly remove the GS+EE from all the old PS3's out there. The new PS3's will do it in emulation while the older ones do it with hardware, the end user should never know the difference.

    Dregun
     
  12. DJ12

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    If Sony are true to their word, the end user will be able to tell the difference as those using software emulation will be able to upscale all their PS2 games to 720p, which isn't possible using the hardware solution.
     
  13. Npl

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    upscaling - yes (but that already happens implicitely on LCDs ).
    rendering in 720p - highly unlikely.
     
  14. Fu3lFr3nzy

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    Whoops, I meant firmware :oops: (forgetting the correct term ftl :sad: )

    Thanks for clearing(the proper word and my question) that up :grin:
     
  15. archie4oz

    archie4oz ea_spouse is H4WT!
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    The more likely case would be a firmware update that includes the emulator, and it simply disables the EE+GS for the software emulator.
     
  16. Dregun

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    I thought of that originally however I'm wondering if Sony put that much thought into the design of the original PS3 that it could completely bypass the GS+EE with a simple firmware upgrade. What would be the benefit of keeping the GS+EE enabled? What would be the benefit of turning off silicon and basically having "spare parts" inside your PS3?

    Either way they do it BC shouldn't suffer too much, if however having software emulation can allow them to enhance the output in anyway then turn off the GS+EE. If not, then leave it enabled or offer the consumer the option to turn software emulation on or leave it off.

    Unless you own a PS3 or plan on buying one, and THEN plan on playing PS2 games on it then it really doesn't matter how its done. Until I buy my own I guess I should just take my own advice :razz:
     
  17. ERP

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    The reason to ignore it and use software accross the board, is so you have less codepaths in the firmware to debug/maintain.
     
  18. kyleb

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    It bypasses them just fine when doing everything else.
     
  19. Panajev2001a

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    I trust they will put a switch that let's at worst re-boot the console with EE+GS Hardware emulation turned on if the console's motherboard still has it integrated (it should be check-able).

    Unless the software emulator is very, I'll repeat it, VERY close to the compatibility achieved by the Hardware-based solution or I think that getting people to download an update that worsen the Backward-Compatibility support they were enjoying before the update with hardware inside a console they paid for.
     
  20. jonabbey

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    Do we know that the current revision of the PS3 has enough flash ram to contain the full PS2 emulator?

    That aside, I don't see any real advantage to switching to software emulation on the current PS3, unless they were to gain the ability to do 3d rendering at higher resolutions in software, but that seems unlikely without the use of a high-level API like DirectX/OpenGL that could abstract away the scaling.
     
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