Wheres my flying car?

Squilliam

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Im not talking about a car which flies, and drives im talking about a car which does point to point vertical take off and landing aka plane for the common man. So how come noone has invented one yet?

All you'd need would be some ultra light materials, fuel cell, helium to cut down on the weight to allow it to fly better and relatively automated control systems (eventually). So why hasn't it been made yet! :(
 
I believe a company recently unveiled a flying car for sale, it requires an airstrip, and costs an order of magnitude more than a standard car.

A lot of what makes a good or legal car runs cross purposes with what makes a good plane that is also compliant with regulations (the flying car needed an FAA weight exemption).

Physically, a good car shape is not a particularly good plane shape.
Weight-wise, a good car is bloated compared to a good plane.
A good plane's full dimensions do not fit in a standard road lane.

Cars and planes have divergent needs for their engines and exhaust systems.
Vertical take-off and landing is another level of engineering above that.

There's also a tiny market of people that want an ugly and expensive car crossed with a less than optimal plane, and of that set, most would probably be terrible pilots.
 
So, a helicopter then? ;)

Actually a cross between an airship and a VTOL aircraft. If they could fill the internal spaces with say hydrogren and use that as a fuel source for a fuel cell, they could have a vehicle with a laden weight of 1-200KG which would be incredibly fuel efficient and cut down the commute time by more than half AND be able to park in a regular parking space.

Its far easier to navigate by autopilot in 3 dimensions than two with the number of hazards on the road and with a good aerodynamic profile people need not fear the plane coming down because it would float like a very large feather.
 
Just give everyone one man Blimps. :D Granted, it'd be the size of a small house, and give a new meaning to traffic congestion as the sun was blotted out by millions of blimps in the sky. :D

Regards,
SB
 
Just give everyone one man Blimps. :D Granted, it'd be the size of a small house, and give a new meaning to traffic congestion as the sun was blotted out by millions of blimps in the sky. :D

Regards,
SB

Well... It'll help prevent global warming because I'll assume they'll all be painted white to reflect the sunlight! :D

But seriously now, surely with advanced composite materials you could get a vehicle which could take up to 2 passengers down to ~100-200KG without passengers? Maybe Americans will finally have an incentive to exercise because weight OMG actually matters! :D
 
It's a nice idea, but serious problems start to arise when you have a large number of "flyers." With driving on a 2 dimensional plane your blind spots are generally small and fairly predictable, especially with established and enforced driving rules and regulations.

For example you know on a 2 lane road, people will only overtake you on one side. If you have to overtake, you only have to check traffic in very predictable locations.

Cross traffic will always be at certain well designated areas (cross roads). The natural drift of a vehicle will only be side to side (unless something catastrophic occurs) and will mainly be affected by the road surface and to a lesser extent the wind.

Traffic signs and signals also help to make driving predictable.

With flying you're now operating in 3 dimensions with orders magnitude more freedom in which to move. You no longer limited to purely side to side. You now also have 360 degree's of possible variation up and down in combination with right and left.

You can no longer reliably predict that all traffic you face will be either oncoming on the same plane or approaching from behind on the same plane. Not plane as in aeroplane. :p

Your blind spot has now expanded quite significantly. Turbulence can make for much more eratic flight and drift than a road surface. Meaning you'd need quite a LOT of distance between vehicles, unless everyone was a precision pilot. Especially in verticle dimension as turbulence can cause a plane to drop 10's to 100's of feet quite unexpectedly.

If you're the only plane around that's not a problem. If flying automobiles were common that suddenly becomes a large problem to overcome.

Anyway, the long story short. One of the major problems faced by people looking to capitalize on this (and there are quite a few companies trying) is going to involve licensing. You're going to need air control systems an order of magnitude more complex than currently exists just to prevent collisions. You'll need entirely new rules and regulations.

I was quite interested in some of this stuff back in the mid to late 90's when there were quite a few start-ups trying to commercialize personal automotive + flight vehicles.

Getting a flying automobile is going to be the easy part, and that's saying a lot when there is no commercially viable flying automobile yet.

BTW - feel free to replace helicopter based flight with regular fixed wing flight in the examples above. The challenges remain the same.

Regards,
SB
 
The only real advantage with a flying car is that there would presumably be less traffic. But realistically, I think public transportation is the best solution for that.

A flying car as a commuter vehicle just has way too many ways to end in disaster as SB pointed out.
 
If they could fill the internal spaces with say hydrogren and use that as a fuel source for a fuel cell, they could have a vehicle with a laden weight of 1-200KG which would be incredibly fuel efficient and cut down the commute time by more than half AND be able to park in a regular parking space.
Hardly. Tank that thing up with enough hydrogen to run a fuel cell and not only do you have a flying bomb on your hands, you'll also make it heavier, not lighter.

Flying cars is a pipedream, not only are they much more difficult and risky to pilot, any accident involving them can very easily have vastly greater consequences than a road collision. Now you don't only need to worry about drunk drivers on the road, they can also fall down on top of your house, your kids' school etc...

Also, imagine road rage in the sky... No thank you!

Its far easier to navigate by autopilot in 3 dimensions than two
I seriously doubt that. With relatively clear skies perhaps so, but give every man + dog (and woman) a flying car, and things will get fucking ugly...quickly.
 
Pfff, flying cars...
What I really want is one of the shoe-phones that secret agents like Clever&Smart use. I dint figure that the future will be so bland back in time when I red those comics. Nowadays we get uglier and bulkier phones claiming to be "smart", possibly soon big enough to fit feet if the trend continues but I still cant wear them. Carrying stuff around is oh-so-last-millenium
 
It's a nice idea, but serious problems start to arise when you have a large number of "flyers." With driving on a 2 dimensional plane your blind spots are generally small and fairly predictable, especially with established and enforced driving rules and regulations.

Surely with Radar and transponders you would know relatively where every other plane was in the sky? Also you would have much greater collision warning than 0.1-5 seconds typical of driving.

For example you know on a 2 lane road, people will only overtake you on one side. If you have to overtake, you only have to check traffic in very predictable locations.

Cross traffic will always be at certain well designated areas (cross roads). The natural drift of a vehicle will only be side to side (unless something catastrophic occurs) and will mainly be affected by the road surface and to a lesser extent the wind.

Traffic signs and signals also help to make driving predictable.

With flying you're now operating in 3 dimensions with orders magnitude more freedom in which to move. You no longer limited to purely side to side. You now also have 360 degree's of possible variation up and down in combination with right and left.

But surely sir, the sheer volume of space above is more than compensating the increased spacing? Even spacing 500feet apart you can have three levels of traffic up to 2000 feet assuming the floor was 1000 feet in the air for most traffic.

You can no longer reliably predict that all traffic you face will be either oncoming on the same plane or approaching from behind on the same plane. Not plane as in aeroplane. :p

Your blind spot has now expanded quite significantly. Turbulence can make for much more eratic flight and drift than a road surface. Meaning you'd need quite a LOT of distance between vehicles, unless everyone was a precision pilot. Especially in verticle dimension as turbulence can cause a plane to drop 10's to 100's of feet quite unexpectedly.

With Radar and/or a ground based transponder position system you would know the precise location of all other traffic in the sky. Surely if a 747 can be autopiloted on a few very ancient computers a modern personal airplane could fly itself on modern technology? You would only need to train people to use their judgement in landing at the right spot especially if the computer can land whereever its told to!

If you're the only plane around that's not a problem. If flying automobiles were common that suddenly becomes a large problem to overcome.

Anyway, the long story short. One of the major problems faced by people looking to capitalize on this (and there are quite a few companies trying) is going to involve licensing. You're going to need air control systems an order of magnitude more complex than currently exists just to prevent collisions. You'll need entirely new rules and regulations.

By comparison. Is it cheaper to build a massive new road network or to make sure everyone can get around in flying transportation? If there was a new city being built tomorrow would it not be cheaper to install the guidance systems etc than it is to build a huge and inefficient roading network?

It seems to me that its as much a city/country planning problem as it is a mechanical problem. If cities are building suburbs 50+ miles away from where people want to work, could it be cheaper if people in those suburbs flew into town than building ultra wide highways more than 8 lanes in each direction?

Regards,
SB

Regards! :)

Hardly. Tank that thing up with enough hydrogen to run a fuel cell and not only do you have a flying bomb on your hands, you'll also make it heavier, not lighter.

If the discharge of hydrogen from a fuel cell car isn't considered a problem, why would it be a problem for a plane? Hydrogen is a gas which disperses rapidly and theres no reason to expect it would approach the concentration required of ignition. In addition, a discharge of hydrogen would also cool any hot spots the stream came in contact with, wouldn't it?
Flying cars is a pipedream, not only are they much more difficult and risky to pilot, any accident involving them can very easily have vastly greater consequences than a road collision. Now you don't only need to worry about drunk drivers on the road, they can also fall down on top of your house, your kids' school etc...

Thats why man invented autopilot! No need to worry about drunk flying if the pilots a computer who doesn't drink!

Also, imagine road rage in the sky... No thank you!

If the autopilot gets angry, I think you'll be more worried about judgement day.

I seriously doubt that. With relatively clear skies perhaps so, but give every man + dog (and woman) a flying car, and things will get fucking ugly...quickly.

But it works so well for the Jetsons! :(
 
Surely with Radar and transponders you would know relatively where every other plane was in the sky? Also you would have much greater collision warning than 0.1-5 seconds typical of driving.

But surely sir, the sheer volume of space above is more than compensating the increased spacing? Even spacing 500feet apart you can have three levels of traffic up to 2000 feet assuming the floor was 1000 feet in the air for most traffic.

With Radar and/or a ground based transponder position system you would know the precise location of all other traffic in the sky. Surely if a 747 can be autopiloted on a few very ancient computers a modern personal airplane could fly itself on modern technology? You would only need to train people to use their judgement in landing at the right spot especially if the computer can land whereever its told to!

Condensing a bit as too many quote boxes can be disorientating. :)

Radar isn't particularly precise when you get down to say feet and inches, at least those currently used for air traffic control. And the more precise systems you start using and the more complex control systems, the higher the cost is going to be.

Take a look at the cost of avionics for a modern jet. You'll need something far more complex than that featured in even the F-22 or F-35 if you want to deal with auto-pilot and avoiding collisions in 3 dimensions with vehicles just a few meters apart. Costs are going to rapidly escalate for a system capable of dealing with those situations quickly enough to avoid and accident.

And you will have to spend those costs, as an accident on the road isn't going to have nearly the same consequences as an accident in the air. Especially if you are near any population centers. Additionally the higher you are, the more force you will carry into any impact when you hit the ground, again, increasing the potential for something really bad to happen.

And if you are going to need say a 500 ft bubble around each car, you're not going to be able to have the traffic density of a roadway where you only need a meter or two between cars side to side, and a variable amount front to back depending on speed. You're always going to need a large buffer all the way around a flying vehicle, as there isn't much to prevent the vehicle from going in any direction at any given time depending on circumstances out of the operators controls.

By comparison. Is it cheaper to build a massive new road network or to make sure everyone can get around in flying transportation? If there was a new city being built tomorrow would it not be cheaper to install the guidance systems etc than it is to build a huge and inefficient roading network?

It seems to me that its as much a city/country planning problem as it is a mechanical problem. If cities are building suburbs 50+ miles away from where people want to work, could it be cheaper if people in those suburbs flew into town than building ultra wide highways more than 8 lanes in each direction?

A massive road network will always be cheaper. There are much less safeguards required. Potential high risk danger area's are much more predictable and thus it'll always be easier for say emergency services to arrive at the scene of an accident and hopefully save as many lives as possible. A flying vehicle crashing into the side of an apartment building 8 or 9 stories up is going to be a lot more disasterous than a car crashing into the side of the same building on the ground floor.

When designing for mass commuter traffic, taking into account potential risks and hazards is something you must do. It's one reason why airports are generally located miles away from any population centers generally. Unfortunately, cities have a way of then growing around the airports. :p


Grin...

If the discharge of hydrogen from a fuel cell car isn't considered a problem, why would it be a problem for a plane? Hydrogen is a gas which disperses rapidly and theres no reason to expect it would approach the concentration required of ignition. In addition, a discharge of hydrogen would also cool any hot spots the stream came in contact with, wouldn't it?

The forces involved in a crash of a flying vehicle are going to be far more than a ground vehicle. If you are say 100 meters up in the air prior to crashing, you're going to be carrying a lot of potential energy. Will that be enough to rupture the hydrogen tank, expell it quickly enough to get a good oxygen-hydrogen mix and then contact an exposed flame or spark and ignite? Possibly. And if it does you've just exploded a fuel-air bomb in the middle of a population center.

Ground vehicles are going to have fairly predictable crash and damage scenario's and the forces involved are generally going to be less. Protecting the hydrogen cell is going to be a lot easier (not to say it's going to be easy).

Thats why man invented autopilot! No need to worry about drunk flying if the pilots a computer who doesn't drink!

Well, assuming we make an autopilot orders of magnitude better than what is currently used, that may help to some extent. But even the best autopilot can only deal with situations it's been programmed to understand and react to. That's not such a big problem when there's usually a kilometer or more between planes. Start cramming flying vehicles closer and closer together and you're going to have to deal with any situation mother nature can throw at you.

And that's not even going into the potential of hacking/system failure/etc.

Not saying any of this is unsolveable. But there's a cost associated with everything. And costs associated with mass consumer flight is going to be huge.

As the example the only reason ultra lights (those dinky one many flyers) don't face very stringent rules and regulations is that there are so few of them that the chances of mid-air collision and collateral damage from the fallout is very very small.

Regards,
SB
 
The problems with the idea of a flying car are:
  • Absence of magical anti-gravity drive.
  • Power plant energy density/power to weight ratio.
  • Noise.
  • Traffic control/auto-pilot.
  • Maintenance.

Traffic control & Auto-pilot should be well doable now but well, see the recent Toyota regenerative braking issues stuff & imagine that with a flying vehicle.

Power plant problems are still an issue in that you could probably make a flying car with various types of power plant now but a helicopter is going to be cheaper to run & will probably have better payload/speed.

Noise is intractable until someone invents the magical anti-gravity drive. Presumably it'll also solve the energy density issue too.
Helicopters are already noisy enough to not be practical as a general suburban commuter vehicle but in the absence of helicopter style rotors or magical anti-gravity drive then any form of flying car is going to be pumping a smaller diameter column of air faster -> noisier eg see the V22 which has had various development issues related to the higher velocity air column.

A flying car would need similar low-maintenance requirements to modern land cars but modern aircraft still have pretty serious maintenance requirements.
 
Who says it has to "fly" to go in three dimensions though? How about something like a tram system where everything is switching between tiered rails or something?

You could propel the thousands of car-train things with a mag-lev system. The upside is that the cars are just giant magnets with seats (cheap?) and yet you'd still be able to split traffic across three dimensions and it would be of course more efficient than using fuel cells or fossil fuels to fly from point A to point B. The downside is that hovering to work on magnets just isn't as sexy as flying.
 
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