Where Microsofts Game Studios stand and what do they need to do next?

Discussion in 'Console Industry' started by invictis, Apr 19, 2020.

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  1. iroboto

    iroboto Daft Funk
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    I came from PC, I decided to do a generation of console with XBO to see what it would be like. I'm back at PC now, and I enjoy FPS more than I did with console. But console gaming had its upsides and its moments too, specifically when Destiny 1 came out. Having to play certain action games, like Ryse and Sunset Overdrive, etc.

    That being said; yea there is some BS with cheating that I don't encounter on console. But they haven't managed to set the fps world on fire with Halo or Gears. Both of those have more competitive FPS and PS offerings from 3rd parties that are all Free 2 Play. (the exception being R6 Siege).

    That's really unfortunate. Let's not compare it to Sony, because these are different genres of games and market they are targeting. I have to compare it to its nearest competitors (CS, Apex, OW, COD, BF, Valorant, R6); for TPS: Fortnite, PUBG, Smite etc and the nearest competitors are dominate the market for their respective groups.

    There isn't much of a Market of where Sony does it's work, so that's why they keep shining over and over again. Not to mention single players rise and die fairly quickly. There's no such thing as trying to dethrone an entrenched title. Like how many MMOs have actually been successful in taking a big chunk out of World of Warcraft.

    When people talk about Halo and Gears kicking ass again, it's not enough that it's a decent product; Gears has to be better than fortnite, Halo better than COD and R6 Siege and likely soon to be Valorant.

    KI has to be better than Streetfighter (it was imo, but at the same time it wasn't in some ways).

    Games right now with lasting power in the eyes of the larger community as of this gen:
    • Sea of Thieves
    • Minecraft
    • Forza Horizon

    That's what they are up against - only when they are the best of the class, will they get GOTY wins. Until then, I think they're going to be stuck. Xbox is making the right moves to move into the PC space. But they need to figure out a new formula that's going to beat what's out there. Going back to H2/H3 isn't going to help.
     
    #21 iroboto, Apr 20, 2020
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2020
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  2. Scott_Arm

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    Do Last Guardian, The Order and Walking Simulator not count? I have absolutely zero interest in playing those games, but they're big AAA narrative games. The type of games Xbox is lacking.

    Seriously, if there are big money exclusives coming out on Xbox, let me know because I own one. I do not own a PS4.

    Edit: Also, I could include Driveclub as an exclusive franchise, but it's not a narrative game which is what I was focusing on.
     
  3. Scott_Arm

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    Here is Microsoft's list of exclusives by year, at least the notable ones. I think I'm even being charitable by including a couple of timed exclusives (Rise of the tomb raider, Dead rising 4) and a few remasters (Halo MC and Gears Ultimate). A bunch of their best games recently have been Cuphead, Ori which are low-price titles. That doesn't diminish their quality at all. They're five star games, but there is a general lack of the big budget AAA titles people expect from exclusives. 2017-2020 have been almost barren of big games for Xbox. The last relatively big budget IP they released was Quantum Break and Sea of Thieves in 2016. Crackdown 3 is a horrible game and should probably not even count on this list.

    2013
    Dead Rising 3 (Microsoft) 2013
    Forza Motorsport 5 (Microsoft) 2013
    Ryse: Son of Rome (Microsoft) 2013

    2014
    Forza Horizon 2 (Microsoft) 2014
    Halo: The Master Chief Collection (Microsoft) 2014 (Remaster)
    Sunset Overdrive (Microsoft) 2014
    Titanfall (EA) 2014

    2015
    Forza Motorsport 6 (Microsoft) 2015
    Gears of War: Ultimate Edition (Microsoft) 2015 (Remaster)
    Halo 5: Guardians (Microsoft) 2015
    Ori and the blind forest 2015
    Rise of the Tomb Raider (Square Enix) 2015 (timed)

    2016
    Dead Rising 4 (Microsoft) 2016 (timed)
    Forza Horizon 3 (Microsoft) 2016
    Gears of War 4 (Microsoft) 2016
    Sea of Thieves (Microsoft) 2016
    Quantum Break (Microsoft) 2016

    2017
    Cuphead 2017
    Forza Motorsport 7 (Microsoft) 2017
    Halo Wars 2 (Microsoft) 2017

    2018
    Forza Horizon 4 (Microsoft) 2018
    State of Decay 2 (Microsoft) 2018

    2019
    Crackdown 3 (Microsoft) 2019
    Gears 5 (Microsoft) 2019

    2020
    Ori and the will of the wisps 2020
     
  4. eastmen

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    You brushed off MS games because they aren't single player but included games like Last Guardian that is far from AAA. It was a long abandoned game .

    Your trying to build a narrative by setting goal posts that make zero sense in any context.
     
  5. PSman1700

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    I think much of this is down to personal opinions what to like. Also, quite hard to judge on how next gen MS will do, Xone/2013 console wasn't really AAA game focussed, but OG xbox/360 had great games. Not to say it was bad this gen though.
    They are more gaming focussed atleast, so let's see what will come out of it. Same goes for Sony, we have no idea how things will turn out there either.
     
  6. cheapchips

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    The idea of MS acquiring studios to make Nathan Jones or Mom of War seems desperately unappealing.

    I'd be quite happy if MS used Gamepass to distribute 2hr pilots of AAA games. Throw AAA production values at a load of experiments and see what sticks. Or just have things on Gamepass that are short experiences.
     
  7. Scott_Arm

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    My "narrative" is that Microsoft should make more of a specific type of single-player game that are AAA quality. They release a lot of racing games, indie-style titles that are very high quality. At this point they have Gears and Halo to go up against the likes of Uncharted, the Last of Us, Spiderman, God of War, Bloodborne, Walking Simulator, Horizon Zero Dawn etc. Uncharted and God of War are the only ones in that series that have been sequel'd to death, but at least God of War received a total makeover. Gears 6 likely to play just like Gears 1-5. Halo 6 is likely to play like Halo 1-3.

    Microsoft 2017, 2018 didn't even include any big games like this. 2020 will likely include Halo and nothing else.
     
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  8. iroboto

    iroboto Daft Funk
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    Or put perhaps more accurately, if we must do console comparisons.
    MS has no answer for Sony's 1P lineup they don't make those types of games and are usually outsourced (this coming next wave will be different)

    Sony has no answer for MS' lineup either. But the 3rd party offerings in the same space are very strong, many would say are better.

    And that's the challenge that MS is facing.

    From MS perspective: Tomb Raider, RDR 2, GTA, Witcher 3 is great. But it's not enough. Single players rise and die quickly. They must always be coming.

    On the other hand CS has been an FPS king for well over decade now. Sony can rely on Fortnite, COD, Destiny, R6Siege, Apex Legends, Titanfall, etc.
     
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  9. eastmen

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    There are a slew of AAA quality xbox one titles like quantum break and sunset over drive.

    Also the last of us has been delayed and the previous one was a ps3/4 title. Your also forgetting the amazing Ori games and Cuphead which are some of the best games this generation.

    Your narrative is that Single player is good and multiplayer doesn't matter but I can tell you that its your narrative because for some people multiplayer is more important. I've put in more hours and had more fun with Sea of Thieves and State of Decay 2 then I had with the new Uncharted or god of war. I assume walking simulator is death stranding and not the march 2020 pc hit called walking simulator ? Because if so that game to me was simply boring and a waste of time and judging by its user score of just 72 my opinion is shared by many.


    The problem with it is that this is all subjective. I will agree with you that Microsoft needs more games, however I disagree on what type. I also find it interesting that we are discussing this before anything has been announced for these new consoles.
     
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  10. Scott_Arm

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    @eastmen I never said single player was more important than multiplayer. I just said they’re lacking in variety of big AAA single player titles. I also didn’t exclude cuphead or ori. I even acknowledged they’re five star games. Xbox has not had the same variety of big single player titles. Variety is important because not everyone likes the same things. Also why is it interesting that we’re talking about this before games have been announced? That’s the whole point of this thread.

    Edit: As for their being a "slew" of AAA titles on Xbox, there's Halo, Gears, Sunset Overdrive, Ryse and Quantum Break. That's it. They have not released a new IP in a big AAA format since 2016. Sunset Overdrive, Ryse and Quantum Break are all dead and all produced by studios that are not affiliated with Microsoft. Insomniac is owned by Sony. Remedy and Crytek do not have partnerships with Microsoft to produce exclusive titles.
     
    #30 Scott_Arm, Apr 21, 2020
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2020
  11. eastmen

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    again you leave out ori / cup head / sea of thieves .halo wars 2 , upcoming gears tactics. Your also forgetting Dead Rising and the brilliant killer instinct.

    Its a hand full of games vs a slightly larger handful of games. It just depends on what you like more and its a personal opinion.
     
  12. Scott_Arm

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    Are cuphead and ori AAA games? I'm talking about Gears, God of War, Horizon Zero Dawn, Halo, The Last of Us etc. These are the big AAA titles. You know what they are. I'm saying Xbox needs more big exclusive AAA games (big budget, cutting edge) and you're saying, "What about Cuphead?" Cuphead is amazing, but it's a different kind of game. Ori is amazing, but it's a different kind of game. Sea of Thieves has found huge unexpected success, but it's a different kind of game. I don't know why you can't understand the point. I'm not forgetting about any of those games. They just aren't the kind of game I'm saying Xbox needs. I'm also not forgetting Dead Rising. Dead Rising 3 came out in 2013. Dead Rising 4 was multi-platform.

    Here's the list of AAA exclusives on Xbox One. There are 19 games in this list. 6 of them are Forza. 2 of them are timed exclusives, not real exclusives. One of them is Crackdown 3 lol. Look at 2017, 2018, 2019, 2020 and tell me Xbox hasn't had a drought of big games.

    2013
    Dead Rising 3 (Microsoft) 2013
    Forza Motorsport 5 (Microsoft) 2013
    Ryse: Son of Rome (Microsoft) 2013

    2014
    Forza Horizon 2 (Microsoft) 2014
    Sunset Overdrive (Microsoft) 2014
    Titanfall (EA) 2014

    2015
    Forza Motorsport 6 (Microsoft) 2015
    Halo 5: Guardians (Microsoft) 2015
    Rise of the Tomb Raider (Square Enix) 2015 (timed)

    2016
    Dead Rising 4 (Microsoft) 2016 (timed)
    Forza Horizon 3 (Microsoft) 2016
    Gears of War 4 (Microsoft) 2016
    Quantum Break (Microsoft) 2016

    2017
    Forza Motorsport 7 (Microsoft) 2017
    Halo Wars 2 (Microsoft) 2017

    2018
    Forza Horizon 4 (Microsoft) 2018

    2019
    Crackdown 3 (Microsoft) 2019 ... arguably not AAA
    Gears 5 (Microsoft) 2019

    2020 (expected releases if Covid doesn't ruin it)
    Halo 6


    Here are the playstation games from 2017 onward. I'm not arguing that I want to play any of these games, or that I like them. But there's a bigger library of big production exclusives on Playstation. That's 12 games from 2017-2020 and it doesn't include any year after year repeats like Forza. That's 11 different IPs in a 4-year span.

    2017
    Horizon Zero Dawn
    Nier Automata (timed) Edit: Didn't know this came out on Xbox later
    Nioh
    Hellblade (timed)
    Gran Turismo Sport

    2018
    God of War
    Marvel's Spiderman
    Detroit Become Human

    2019
    Death Stranding
    Days Gone

    2020 (expected releases if Covid doesn't ruin it)
    Last of Us 2
    Ghosts of Tsushima
    Nioh 2
     
    #32 Scott_Arm, Apr 21, 2020
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2020
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  13. szymku

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    He also didn't mention Infamous, Bloodborne, Until dawn, Ratchet&clank, Yakuza, killzone, Detroit, Death stranding
    There is a big gap and MS has a lot to catch up, they started to invest in more exclusives only recently
     
  14. PSman1700

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    Yes, so what MS needs to do as the topic is, increase/improve their AAA game library for next generation. It seems that they are just aiming for that.

    Yes exactly, the One wasn't their best console i think. It seems they have improved very much for next gen. It can happen and things can get better. PS3 was also kinda 'meh' on basically all fronts, yet PS4 was/is a huge success.

    @Scott_Arm some of the PS games in your list made it to PC, but i guess you mean console exclusives? :)
     
  15. BRiT

    BRiT (>• •)>⌐■-■ (⌐■-■)
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    So recently is defined as going as far back as 3 years?
     
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  16. Scott_Arm

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    Yes, console exclusives. A game that's available on PC and PS4 is as good as exclusive if a person only owns an Xbox and doesn't have a gaming PC to go with it.
     
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  17. Scott_Arm

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    I will say Xbox had a better launch year

    2013
    Killzone Shadowwhogiveashit
    Knacksterpiecce

    LOL. I think Xbox's 2014 was much better as well.

    2014
    DriveClub
    Infamous Second Son

    2015
    BloodBorne
    Until Dawn
    The Order

    2016
    Uncharted 4
    The Last Guardian
    Persona 5

    You could argue that Microsoft is arguably better than Playstation 4 from 2013-2016 depending on the games you like, but what really stands out for the entirety of the PS4 generation is the lack of sequels. From year to year. Each year you got 2-4 new games to play, barely a sequel in sight. 2017-2020 is no contest in favour of ps4.
     
    #37 Scott_Arm, Apr 21, 2020
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2020
  18. szymku

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    If you take into account a time you need to develop AAA game, then the answer is yes. Let's hope it will produce some great effects in the months to come.
     
  19. eastmen

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    Yea they are AAA games some of the best 2d games on the market. Why is Gears tactics which comes out in a few days or might be out already not on the list ? I guess in a few months we should revist this when MS announces all their new titles and see what happens
     
  20. Metal_Spirit

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    No, they are not AAA!

    In AAA each A has a meaning.

    The first A means the game comes from a mid-sized or major publisher.
    The second A means the game has a higher development budget.
    The Third A means the game has a high marketing budget.

    Ori and Cuphead are made by small teams, and using a low budget. They are, at the very best AA games, or III games (Indie AAA games - The definition really exists)

    Developers: Moon Studios GmbH [www.oriblindforest.com]
    Publisher: Microsoft Studios
    Platform: PC, Xbox 360, Xbox One.
    Genre: Platform adventure
    Engine: Unity
    Release Date: 11 March 2015
    PEGI: 0+
    Budget: 6.000.000 $

    Cuphead was made by an Indie Team, mortgaging their houses to pay for the game creation!

    So they are not AAA.

    Great games though!
     
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