When will Intel regain the CPU performance crown? Conroe?

[kenneth9265_3]

Right now the AMD 64 chips are kicking butt and taking names on the performance CPU front. Intel in the meanwhile have seems to have drop the ball by going for faster GHz instead of clock per cycle. I read that Intel is so far behind in architecture that it may take them up two years to be competitive.

http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=19105

http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=19110

Will Merom/Conroe chip be able to make Intel competitive again in performance will AMD? Or will the K9/10 make it light out for the Chip giant?

 

[hoom]

Actually you'll find they have historically & will continue to draw on clock per cycle

 

[ANova]

IMO, Intel isn't as far behind as AMD zealots would like you to believe. Yes they're faster in games, but not by a whole lot and Intel is still faster in the majority of content creation.

When will Intel "regain the performance crown?" Answer: It's already here, the Pentium M architecture. You'll start to see just how good it is when the new chipset comes out and the 533 MHz fsb PMs appear.

 

[T2k]

IMO, Intel isn't as far behind as AMD zealots would like you to believe. Yes they're faster in games, but not by a whole lot and Intel is still faster in the majority of content creation.

It's simply not true. I have 100+ machines and dual Opterons are waaay faster in terms of rendering, for example.

When will Intel "regain the performance crown?" Answer: It's already here, the Pentium M architecture. You'll start to see just how good it is when the new chipset comes out and the 533 MHz fsb PMs appear.

C'mon... P-M is nice due to its huge cache etc but still pretty far from the A64s, especially when it comes to content creation. Advanced video applications are faster even on the aging desktop P4, not to mention the effect of the integrated memory controller of the AMDs.
Besides this fastest P-M is already overpriced as hell.

Intel currently has nothing to offer against AMD. Future? Time will tell whether AMD becomes the constant king with its next architecture or this was one good call to save their asses but next round will go to Intel.

 

[ANova]

It's simply not true. I have 100+ machines and dual Opterons are waaay faster in terms of rendering, for example.

Not according to benchmarks, and I've looked at many. Yes the A64/Opteron is faster in gaming and is definitely catching up to Intel in terms of rendering. "Waaay faster?" No. Take a look at the P4 570J 3.8 GHz. It beats the FX53 and FX55 in more rendering and encoding tests then it loses.

http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/intel_pentium_4_3.8ghz/page10.asp
http://techreport.com/reviews/2004q4/pentium4-570j/index.x?pg=9
http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2275&p=9

Need I go on?

And don't even think of giving me that crap about the Opteron being better, an FX53 is just a rebadged Opteron 150 (exactly the same specs).

C'mon... P-M is nice due to its huge cache etc but still pretty far from the A64s, especially when it comes to content creation. Advanced video applications are faster even on the aging desktop P4, not to mention the effect of the integrated memory controller of the AMDs.
Besides this fastest P-M is already overpriced as hell.

Intel currently has nothing to offer against AMD. Future? Time will tell whether AMD becomes the constant king with its next architecture or this was one good call to save their asses but next round will go to Intel.

C'mon yourself. A PM at 2.4 GHz outperforms an FX-55 in gaming by a bigger margin then the FX-55 outperforms a P4 3.6 GHz. As for the cache argument, yes it helps it, theres no denying that, but it's not the sole reason by any means. Take a look at the P4 Extreme Editions which feature a full 2 mb more of cache, yet they still get outperformed by A64s in gaming. The reason for PMs poor performance in content creation is largely due to the 855GME chipset which is getting dated. The PMs are currently memory bandwidth starved, with the A64s and P4s generally three times faster in that area. Like I said, the new Centrino 2 chipset which is set to debut this year will allievate most of that and increase the system bus speed.

Prices will come down as they become more popular, currently they are only part of a niche market and haven't been selling well.

I see you own an FX-53, maybe that has influenced your judgement? I know some people like to think they have the best money can buy as a means of justifying the cost; saw it many times with Geforce FX owners. Now, don't get me wrong, I'm not saying the FX-53 is a bad proc, all I'm saying is AMD is not that much ahead of Intel if you look at things from a nonbiased point of view and I'm affraid your judgement seems to be clouded in that department, or at least you don't have all the facts.

 

[T2k]

It's simply not true. I have 100+ machines and dual Opterons are waaay faster in terms of rendering, for example.

Not according to benchmarks, and I've looked at many. Yes the A64/Opteron is faster in gaming and is definitely catching up to Intel in terms of rendering. "Waaay faster?" No. Take a look at the P4 570J 3.8 GHz. It beats the FX53 and FX55 in more rendering and encoding tests then it loses.

http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/intel_pentium_4_3.8ghz/page10.asp
http://techreport.com/reviews/2004q4/pentium4-570j/index.x?pg=9
http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2275&p=9

Need I go on?

And don't even think of giving me that crap about the Opteron being better, an FX53 is just a rebadged Opteron 150 (exactly the same specs).

Stop being utterly ignorant. You are obviously dunno this field, unlike me. It'd be also good if you'd stop spreading your BS - apparently you don't even know what content creation means, pal.

It's a little bit bigger area than your average p0rn-divx projects or mp3 compression, hehe.

C'mon... P-M is nice due to its huge cache etc but still pretty far from the A64s, especially when it comes to content creation. Advanced video applications are faster even on the aging desktop P4, not to mention the effect of the integrated memory controller of the AMDs.
Besides this fastest P-M is already overpriced as hell.

Intel currently has nothing to offer against AMD. Future? Time will tell whether AMD becomes the constant king with its next architecture or this was one good call to save their asses but next round will go to Intel.

C'mon yourself. A PM at 2.4 GHz outperforms an FX-55 in gaming by a bigger margin then the FX-55 outperforms a P4 3.6 GHz.

You are mre clueless than I thought... WTF gaming has to do with content creation? LOL

As for the cache argument, yes it helps it, theres no denying that, but it's not the sole reason by any means. Take a look at the P4 Extreme Editions which feature a full 2 mb more of cache, yet they still get outperformed by A64s in gaming. The reason for PMs poor performance in content creation is largely due to the 855GME chipset which is getting dated. The PMs are currently memory bandwidth starved, with the A64s and P4s generally three times faster in that area. Like I said, the new Centrino 2 chipset which is set to debut this year will allievate most of that and increase the system bus speed.

Young Jedi: you don't know a lot of things, I'm telling you.

Prices will come down as they become more popular, currently they are only part of a niche market and haven't been selling well.

I see you own an FX-53, maybe that has influenced your judgement?

Fella: I bought it after Opteron has proven in our renderfarm.
You know: old guys doing like this - young doing like you think.

I know some people like to think they have the best money can buy as a means of justifying the cost; saw it many times with Geforce FX owners. Now, don't get me wrong, I'm not saying the FX-53 is a bad proc, all I'm saying is AMD is not that much ahead of Intel if you look at things from a nonbiased point of view and I'm affraid your judgement seems to be clouded in that department, or at least you don't have all the facts.

The difference between you and me I know many things about both you didn't even hear about yet. In terms of AMD, I often know lot of things earlier than you will even hear any rumour or daydream' about it.

Stop being such a blind fankid.
I never bought AMD for rendering before the Opterons - NEVER.
On the other hand, young Jedi, I don't take so-called 'content creation tests' of some websites into consideration - I have 100+ machines (from dual Itaniums to Xeons and dual Opterons as well), to run test renders like max/brazil, DF, Shake, Combustion etc. You are obviously a 'true believer', I'm not - fine. 8)
If I'm curious about a new chip, I order a new rendernode or my guys build one to test it with real applications and scenes.

You know, young Jedi, we do such things for living - thus we can't afford to be biased one way or another. It's very simple.

 

[Mize]

Well I'm an AMD fan simply because I root for underdogs. That said I have a total of 3 Intel rigs and 2 AMD rigs so I don't think I'm biased...

I am, however, totally baffled by all the "young Jedi" comments.
T2k, are you really Yoda?
Cool.

 

[T2k]

Well I'm an AMD fan simply because I root for underdogs.

Well, that's certainly a well-founded fact too but barely touches the technical background...

That said I have a total of 3 Intel rigs and 2 AMD rigs so I don't think I'm biased...

Since when bias has anything to do with the number of systems owned?

I am, however, totally baffled by all the "young Jedi" comments.

I thought they will represent how pissed off I am when somebody starts linking mp3 compression tests and talking about content creation...

T2k, are you really Yoda?

Me? No way!

Cool.

You sure?





I'm the Emperor.

 

[Mize]

Since when bias has anything to do with the number of systems owned?

Since I bought 100% AMD for every company computer in the last 3 years. Only our laptops are now Intel!

Cool.

You sure?

I'm the Emperor.

I knew it!

 

[hovz]

i dont see intel regaining the performance crown, and lets not kid ourselves, they havent had it in years(unless you consider the small gap between the last xp and the a64). amd has always been better than intel in recent memory. they were better than the p3 once they hit 600ish mhz or so, and they have always been better than the p4. they have also always been cheaper. intel has never had a better chip than amd in recent memory. why do you expect them to have a better chip in the next 2 years? amd will have something that will beat the desktop version of the pentium m when its actually available with proper support.

 

[Killer-Kris]

i dont see intel regaining the performance crown, and lets not kid ourselves, they havent had it in years(unless you consider the small gap between the last xp and the a64). amd has always been better than intel in recent memory. they were better than the p3 once they hit 600ish mhz or

Well if I recall correctly, P3 vrs Athlon tended to be a pretty close race at the same clock speed, with integer and branching benchs going to P3, and FPU intensive benchs going to the Athlon. Much the same as we are seeing between P-M and A64 at present.

so, and they have always been better than the p4. they have also always been cheaper. intel has never had a better chip than amd in recent memory.

I was under the impression that Northwood pretty much ruled the roost until A64 came out. And that was even for a fair length of time, so hardly the never like you claim.

Though like you had said, XP has always been cheaper, if not even the better price/performance part.

why do you expect them to have a better chip in the next 2 years?

Well there's nothing stopping them from doing a dumb shrink of Northwood to 90nm and adding an on die memory controller. That would easily tie things up performance wise. And I'm fairly certain they could do it in two years if not less.

But also looking at history they've taken back performance leads in the past. Intel will hold the performance crown for a little while, and then AMD will take the crown for a while...... back and forth until the end of time.

amd will have something that will beat the desktop version of the pentium m when its actually available with proper support.

Well I sure hope so, I love competition. It means I get an awesome chip for a good price regardless of who it comes from.

 

[MasterBaiter]

The mobile Intel chips do really look promising. I"m pretty much a gamer so content creation isn't that big of a deal. The mobile seems to do an okay job of rendering though it seems.

If I had a wishlist for a desktop version it would have an intergrated memory controller (supporting a 1066 bus speed), a southbridge to bring in up to date, and of course 64 bit extensions. A 2.5-3 ghz speed wouldn't hurt as well... Guess I'm gonna have to get a Dothan & FX drunk, and in bed together before this happens though.

In the meantime I'm probably gonna be upgrading to an AMD in 2005 as soon as they do another refresh.

 

[hovz]

i dont see intel regaining the performance crown, and lets not kid ourselves, they havent had it in years(unless you consider the small gap between the last xp and the a64). amd has always been better than intel in recent memory. they were better than the p3 once they hit 600ish mhz or

Well if I recall correctly, P3 vrs Athlon tended to be a pretty close race at the same clock speed, with integer and branching benchs going to P3, and FPU intensive benchs going to the Athlon. Much the same as we are seeing between P-M and A64 at present.

so, and they have always been better than the p4. they have also always been cheaper. intel has never had a better chip than amd in recent memory.

I was under the impression that Northwood pretty much ruled the roost until A64 came out. And that was even for a fair length of time, so hardly the never like you claim.

Though like you had said, XP has always been cheaper, if not even the better price/performance part.

why do you expect them to have a better chip in the next 2 years?

Well there's nothing stopping them from doing a dumb shrink of Northwood to 90nm and adding an on die memory controller. That would easily tie things up performance wise. And I'm fairly certain they could do it in two years if not less.

But also looking at history they've taken back performance leads in the past. Intel will hold the performance crown for a little while, and then AMD will take the crown for a while...... back and forth until the end of time.

amd will have something that will beat the desktop version of the pentium m when its actually available with proper support.

Well I sure hope so, I love competition. It means I get an awesome chip for a good price regardless of who it comes from.

the northwood didnt rule until it hit 3.2 ghz.

the a64 launched roughly 2 months later and finished off the p4 line.

 

[silence]

In the meantime I'm probably gonna be upgrading to an AMD in 2005 as soon as they do another refresh.

yap. that refresh thats rumored so much looks really interesting. i'll prolly upgrade then.

 

[ANova]

Stop being utterly ignorant. You are obviously dunno this field, unlike me. It'd be also good if you'd stop spreading your BS - apparently you don't even know what content creation means, pal.

It's a little bit bigger area than your average p0rn-divx projects or mp3 compression, hehe.

You want your rendering, fine here you go.

http://techreport.com/reviews/2004q4/pentium4-570j/index.x?pg=13
http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2275&p=11
http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2275&p=12

Still doesn't change the fact that the P4 is faster in Audio/Video encoding and compression as well as some rendering. Utterly ignorant? If you think the FX-53 winning by 1 or 2 seconds constitutes "waaay faster" then you have a problem. And yes, I know the difference between rendering and encoding, the benchmarks I provided were simply to disprove your notion that the A64 is so much better then the P4.

You are mre clueless than I thought... WTF gaming has to do with content creation? LOL

Absolutely nothing, because hey! That's not what I was referring to! I said the PM was going to show it's potential, you claimed it didn't have a chance. Are you going to now claim the PM isn't faster then the FX-55 in gaming? Because I know for a fact it is. And I explained why it was so slow in content creation later on, which you so conviently happened to ignore.

Young Jedi: you don't know a lot of things, I'm telling you.

Is that your argument? Because if it is then this won't be a very long debate. That Young Jedi crap doesn't get you anywhere either, young grasshopper.

Fella: I bought it after Opteron has proven in our renderfarm.
You know: old guys doing like this - young doing like you think.

Because the Opteron is so much faster right?

The difference between you and me I know many things about both you didn't even hear about yet. In terms of AMD, I often know lot of things earlier than you will even hear any rumour or daydream' about it.

So you claim, am I supposed to just take your word for it? I too know what both parties are cooking up their sleeves btw.

Stop being such a blind fankid.
I never bought AMD for rendering before the Opterons - NEVER.
On the other hand, young Jedi, I don't take so-called 'content creation tests' of some websites into consideration - I have 100+ machines (from dual Itaniums to Xeons and dual Opterons as well), to run test renders like max/brazil, DF, Shake, Combustion etc. You are obviously a 'true believer', I'm not - fine.
If I'm curious about a new chip, I order a new rendernode or my guys build one to test it with real applications and scenes.

You know, young Jedi, we do such things for living - thus we can't afford to be biased one way or another. It's very simple.

I'm curious as to how you think looking at the facts is somehow being a blind fankid. Yeah, I can see it now. You don't even want to look at the benchmarks. Good for you, I guess that disproves everything I've said. And seriously, the Jedi stuff is old and gives me the impression that you are a nerd living in his mother's basement.

Oh and yeah Hovs, AMD has always been better then Intel. I guess the Northwood doesn't exist in your little world?

 

[incurable]

the northwood didnt rule until it hit 3.2 ghz.

The As tied, the Bs took the lead and the Cs thoroughly embarrassed whatever K7 AMD had, IIRC. But then again, whatever.

As for the question, it'll take at least another 15 months for Intel to regain the lead, maybe longer.

cu

incurable

 

[_xxx_]

Intel has so much more money that they might even buy AMD at some point if they can't regain the lead (which they probably will, since they can invest much more into R&D IMHO). But who knows.

 

[T2k]

Stop being utterly ignorant. You are obviously dunno this field, unlike me. It'd be also good if you'd stop spreading your BS - apparently you don't even know what content creation means, pal.

It's a little bit bigger area than your average p0rn-divx projects or mp3 compression, hehe.

You want your rendering, fine here you go.

http://techreport.com/reviews/2004q4/pentium4-570j/index.x?pg=13
http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2275&p=11
http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2275&p=12

Still doesn't change the fact that the P4 is faster in Audio/Video encoding and compression as well as some rendering.

As I said: no, it doesn't. In certain cases it's neck-to-neck but never faster.
Unlike you I speak from experience thus with confidence, based on my own tests.
Only idiots or schoolboys, amateurs rely on some website tests, sorry.

Utterly ignorant? If you think the FX-53 winning by 1 or 2 seconds constitutes "waaay faster" then you have a problem.

Again: ignorant and loud.
That 1-2 sec became 10 minutes in case of a week-long rendering session.

It'd be good if you'd ask first instead of talking out of your bottom part.

And yes, I know the difference between rendering and encoding, the benchmarks I provided were simply to disprove your notion that the A64 is so much better then the P4.

You hopelessly clueless and don't know a flying frog about this. Stop pretending you have ever seen any 3d or compositing application.
You didn't even know what I was referring to.

You obviously doesn't know shit about this, young fella. Start some huge stuff w/ 3-4 gig memory need on Xeons...

You are mre clueless than I thought... WTF gaming has to do with content creation? LOL

Absolutely nothing, because hey! That's not what I was referring to! I said the PM was going to show it's potential, you claimed it didn't have a chance. Are you going to now claim the PM isn't faster then the FX-55 in gaming? Because I know for a fact it is.

SUUUUURE! P-M - fastest is 2.1 as of now - is faster than anything, especially the FX-55!

LOL!

I think this is the point when I should stop answering seriously - this whole argument doesn't make any sense, so why bother to read it?

And I explained why it was so slow in content creation later on, which you so conviently happened to ignore.

No, you did not. You conveniently ignored my notes what content creation means, young Jedi, when I listed sw you have oibviously never seen...

Young Jedi: you don't know a lot of things, I'm telling you.

Is that your argument? Because if it is then this won't be a very long debate. That Young Jedi crap doesn't get you anywhere either, young grasshopper.

You were pretty slow in school, right? Sorry, you ARE , right?

It was a hidden message, pal.

Fella: I bought it after Opteron has proven in our renderfarm.
You know: old guys doing like this - young doing like you think.

Because the Opteron is so much faster right?

Exactly.

I know rabid Intel-fan schoolboys having hard time to imagine but I don't really care about that.
Mo-and-Pa home user never will understand what I'm talking about, so you may just proceed and buy Prescott or Northwood, young Jedi.

The difference between you and me I know many things about both you didn't even hear about yet. In terms of AMD, I often know lot of things earlier than you will even hear any rumour or daydream' about it.

So you claim, am I supposed to just take your word for it? I too know what both parties are cooking up their sleeves btw.

Hehehe: now you made clear you don't know shit. Few months from now I'll pull this thread out to embarrass you...

Stop being such a blind fankid.
I never bought AMD for rendering before the Opterons - NEVER.
On the other hand, young Jedi, I don't take so-called 'content creation tests' of some websites into consideration - I have 100+ machines (from dual Itaniums to Xeons and dual Opterons as well), to run test renders like max/brazil, DF, Shake, Combustion etc. You are obviously a 'true believer', I'm not - fine.
If I'm curious about a new chip, I order a new rendernode or my guys build one to test it with real applications and scenes.

You know, young Jedi, we do such things for living - thus we can't afford to be biased one way or another. It's very simple.

I'm curious as to how you think looking at the facts is somehow being a blind fankid. Yeah, I can see it now. You don't even want to look at the benchmarks. Good for you, I guess that disproves everything I've said. And seriously, the Jedi stuff is old and gives me the impression that you are a nerd living in his mother's basement.

Look kid: I don't waste my time reading your average newspaper-online test-etc crap which you rely on exclusively. Any people I know, who are in this industry, will only believe for his own tests only.
You don't even know how test a CPU in this field, I fully believe, so I can fully understand that without solid knowledge and experience you have to rely on some website tests.
We don't. At some day you'll see some place like ours and you'll understand what I'm talking about now.
When you got your first job in this industry, come back and I'll tell you how to make it up on the ladder.

Oh and yeah Hovs, AMD has always been better then Intel. I guess the Northwood doesn't exist in your little world?

? Excuse me?
WTF are you talking about?

Stop smoking that crap - look what it did to you...

 

[hovz]

the northwood didnt rule until it hit 3.2 ghz.

The As tied, the Bs took the lead and the Cs thoroughly embarrassed whatever K7 AMD had, IIRC. But then again, whatever.

As for the question, it'll take at least another 15 months for Intel to regain the lead, maybe longer.

cu

incurable

more like the as got trounced, the bs didnt lose that badly, and the cs were respectable and were ahead when the 3.2 launched for a period of 2 months.

btw yoru comparing a 400 to 500 mhz overclocked penitum m to retail clocked a64s. lets think before we post.

 

[incurable]

more like the as got trounced, the bs didnt lose that badly, and the cs were respectable and were ahead when the 3.2 launched for a period of 2 months.

I guess even this -IMHO rather warped- view of the past could be proven "true", given enough time and carefully chosen benchmarks.

btw yoru comparing a 400 to 500 mhz overclocked penitum m to retail clocked a64s.

No, I'm not.

lets think before we post.

Yeah, well, so much for that ...