What framerate will next-gen target? *spawn
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Honestly, that sounds like an excuse to boast about the amount of money you had to spend on your new TV.
I'm not saying you said it that way, though.IMO, gaming focuses on different factors, most of them not being the amount of money you spent on a TV, but current tech and gamers' interests. We have the hardware we have and we can pretty much predict the overall specifications of next gen consoles, and I don't think everybody agrees on having uglier games at 4K just because of it or because a few players have spent a lot of money to buy a 4K TV (not all 4K TVs cost that much, though). Uglier. Because that's the cost of playing in that resolution, unless next gen consoles would cost way more expensive than the price we are used to pay when we buy a new console.
I don't want uglier games and I don't care if other players only care about ultrahigh resolutions or the money they spent on their TVs. I think that, ideally, we all want better resolution and better graphics... and not to pay a lot to buy a new console: most of us know this is not how things work in the console market. Otherwise, be free to be a MR adept.
60fps current-gen games don't look like "uprezzed" last-gen games so that's a non-issue. If anything should take a backseat that would be 4k: the perceptual improvements over 1080p are minimal for such a massive resource expenditure. They should invest the resources in ray tracing. Games could reuse current gen assets and they'd still look an order of magnitude better.I'm sorry but I don't want my next gen titles to look like uprezzed current gen titles at Ultra settings because of the 60 fps limiter. We're not getting 18 TF monsters at launch so enough with the framerate whoring, please. We're not even getting native 4k at this rate neither. I think devs are gonna need every last drop of flop there is just to show a decent generation leap in graphics as it is, we ain't got no time for lavish motion smoothness guys
I partially agree. 60 FPS comes at a compromise. Always.
I agree on the part that says that the perceptual improvements of 4K over 1080p are not that big. I understand that owners of 4K sets want contents at that resolution, but I also know that I prefer to play a beautiful game at 720p (oh, the horror!!!) than an uglier one at 1080 in my 1080 TV.
There are still so, so much aspects in a game that can be improved if we put more resources there. I don't want to see jagged models at 4K, nor bad animations, nor empty open worlds, nor unrealistic hair and clothes, nor aggressive LOD, etc.
On the matter of 4K and ugly, has anyone with a 4K set compared games at 1080p60 and 4k30? In theory, 1080p60 should look sharper and clearer in action scenes due to motion fidelity, with 4K only looking better in more sedate scenarios where the delta between frames is minimal.
I have not but was going to ask something similar given the 60fps option here if far less GPU hungry, and post processing now makes a 1080 image hold up well on a 4k set.
Tomb raider I guess is the best candidate to compare, I think John Linnerman said he liked the reconstructed 30fps version the best. All the gfx goodies and solid 30fps.
Lol. $5000 CAD after tax. More like 2000 US. Compared to the TV setups some of these guys are running here, it’s mega discount lol.Honestly, that sounds like an excuse to boast about the amount of money you had to spend on your new TV.
But honestly, if you paid for visual fidelity you’re going to want to take advantage of it.
That I know. But sadly, I don't think next gen consoles will be that powerful (powerful enough to evolve a good step both in that resolution and graphics).
4K30 looks clearer but without HDR you’re not going to see much of an upgrade. The pixels are too small, needs HDR to bring them out so that they can be seen.
Maybe but the whole point I was trying to make is the visual leap wouldn't be as great or enough to wow. Also it doesn't matter too much if they aim for either 4k or visuals as long as processing power are dedicated to sharper, higher quality pixels or a balance of both, I'd be happy.
Wouldn't you need 1080p/120fps to match the overall pixel information of 4k/30fps? The former is still only half as sharp in motion no?
Yes, resolution is at the bottom of the list of things that need improving. Simply upscaling the 1080p signal to 4k is good enough.
Lets face it, so long as its a console exclusive people will think it's amazing, no need to sacrifice framerate to achieve that effect.
phoenix_chipset
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I remember when "graphics whores" used to be an insult, now it's framerate (gameplay!) whores?!I'm sorry but I don't want my next gen titles to look like uprezzed current gen titles at Ultra settings because of the 60 fps limiter. We're not getting 18 TF monsters at launch so enough with the framerate whoring, please. We're not even getting native 4k at this rate neither. I think devs are gonna need every last drop of flop there is just to show a decent generation leap in graphics as it is, we ain't got no time for lavish motion smoothness guys
With a 12tf Ps5, Uncharted 5 at 1440p60 could still have well over twice the detail as Uncharted 4 did at 1080p. And uh, I for one am not looking at spiderman, Uncharted 4 or sotc and thinking how dated they look.
It's time for a fixed 60 fps.
I want the hardware balance, and even fixed function helpers, designed to do frame interpolation with much lower latency and much more effective temporal corellation than TVs can do.
Maybe using AI techniques in addition to everything already used within temporal upscaling and temporal AA... All merged into one giant universal sparse rendering code. A frame guaranteed every 16ms, even if it sometimes need to do a complete frame interpolation and even if it requires an additional frame of latency in the pipeline. (however VR will remain limited to the zero latency techniques)
But it's easier to be an armchair engineer than having to write the code.
I want the hardware balance, and even fixed function helpers, designed to do frame interpolation with much lower latency and much more effective temporal corellation than TVs can do.
Maybe using AI techniques in addition to everything already used within temporal upscaling and temporal AA... All merged into one giant universal sparse rendering code. A frame guaranteed every 16ms, even if it sometimes need to do a complete frame interpolation and even if it requires an additional frame of latency in the pipeline. (however VR will remain limited to the zero latency techniques)
But it's easier to be an armchair engineer than having to write the code.
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phoenix_chipset
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I don't recall asking for a forced 60fps standard, devs can do what they want. If you can do basic math you can figure out what options developers have.It's time for a fixed 60 fps.
The hardware balance, and even fixed function helpers, designed to do frame interpolation with much lower latency and much more effective temporal corellation than TVs can do.
Maybe using AI techniques in addition to everything already used within temporal upscaling and temporal AA... All merged into one giant universal sparse rendering code. A frame guaranteed every 16ms, even if it sometimes need to do a complete frame interpolation and even if it requires an additional frame of latency in the pipeline. (however VR will remain limited to the zero latency techniques)
But it's easier to be an armchair engineer than having to write the code.
60fps would mean a lot more than some more polygons when games already look great.
I'm not advocating forcing it, but I hope sparse rendering stuff will eventually advance enough to make the majority of AAA games have a stable 60fps.
The great thing of temporal reconstruction is that actuallu they DON'T "work just as well" for a 30fps target. The lower the target, the less you can rely on the temporal accumulation to resolve a nice looking picture because with lower framerate each ugly unresolved result will linger longer on screen and the total time required untill you've integrated multiple samples will also be higher.
That's the beauty of temporal reconstruction. Of course it doesn't rqualize the cost of 30 and 60fps rendering completely, but is sure helps reduce the gap between the two.
I do believe we will see more 60fps games next gen. At least that seems to be the trend. As much as we saw many devs quickly go back to 30fps after all the early gen hype, we still have more AAA games at 60 than we did on ps360. Almost all self respecting FPS's now make it a point to hit that mark. And we've also got the odd 60fps multiplayer or PRO/X performance mode...
Also, if switch and IOS/Android ports like doom's or fortnite's prove to be valuable, thats further insentive to make 60fps games so they can more easily be downported.
Also, if switch and IOS/Android ports like doom's or fortnite's prove to be valuable, thats further insentive to make 60fps games so they can more easily be downported.
30fps looks like a mess in motion. I had to stop playing Horizon recently because with 65 inches at a sitting distance of 2.2 meters its annoying and and headache-causing due the fast action. God of War workd a bot better because it's not so hectic in the fights but it doesn't work good either. And the bigger the screen diagonal the worse it gets. 30fps still look like 300p in motion. All details are lost. Developers should not waste so much computing power in pixels which is now not as important thanks to good TAAs.
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No idea, is it possible for a nintendo switch to output more than 1080p?
i.e. Im sure the hardware maker can limit the res, even if its a OS limitation
I understand people having a 4K tv since i hate upscaling.
I have a 1080p tv so, ideally, i would want 1080p/60fps next gen. But it's just me and as long as i don't own a 4k tv.
Actually, i would even be happy with 1080p/30fps to get the most impressive graphics ever lol.
On PC and only on PC, 60fps is alwlays superior because you can get the same quality without any compromise. And when everything is equal, 60fps is so much better. It's not really comparable.
But soon, we will probably reach a point of a strong diminish return with lower framerate, just like with resolution.
I have a 1080p tv so, ideally, i would want 1080p/60fps next gen. But it's just me and as long as i don't own a 4k tv.
Actually, i would even be happy with 1080p/30fps to get the most impressive graphics ever lol.
On PC and only on PC, 60fps is alwlays superior because you can get the same quality without any compromise. And when everything is equal, 60fps is so much better. It's not really comparable.
But soon, we will probably reach a point of a strong diminish return with lower framerate, just like with resolution.
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