What are the odds that 9 GIGs WON'T be enough for Next Gen?

Jvd, you are correct about piracy (this was the No1 reason dreamcast failed) but I said DVD was one of the reasons Dreamcast didn't do as well as it could have in the first 2 years of it's lifetime.
About the other reason You mentioned, SEGA that pulled the plug when Dreamcast had 12 million installed base, this is not actually a reason but a sideeffect of the failure, becauce it doesn't matter what is the instaled base if the whole business model at the end of the 5-6 years lifetime is not profitable, and it it was clear (mainly becauce of the piracy reasons and the unwillingless of the other big publishers to invest in the Dreamcast business model) that the dreamcast business was not going to be profitable for the companies involved in it.

 

dvd movies didn't matter . When the dreamcast came out dvd was only a year old .

 

When DC hit, yes, but when PS2 hit, DVD market was already 3 years old. Perfect time to boost PS2 sales based on it being the cheapest DVD player by a decent margin.

 

except it wasn't . Dvd players were already at the 200$ mark by that point . we've been over this many times .

 

DC was on about 9 million or so when Sega pulled the plug (AFAICR), they sold a few million more after they began to discount after they decided to pull out. Incidentally, it last Xmas before scrapping (2000) the DC was retailing in Europe for £150 - more than it had launched for in the US, and with a slower modem. Hooray for Europe.

Putting DVD playback in the DC wouldn't on its own have changed the machines image without a substantial redesign to make it more stylish and quieter. I'd rather they'd spent the money on more memory and another SH4 - something that would have benefited games. Shenmue is the only DC game I played that would have genuinely benefited from DVD storage, as they could have reduced the noticeable compression on the voice acting. It just wasn't a real limitation for the machine - even for the GC, 1.5 Gigs has barely been an issue.

BTW, when the PS2 launched in Europe for £300, you could buy better DVD players for £150. DVD was certanily an important feature for PS2, but the idea that it made DVD popular, or was cheaper than all dedicated DVD players is a myth.

 

DVD players were $300 and over late 99/early 2000 in the US. The year before DC launch in the US (in the summer), I bought my first DVD player (Panasonic A310: a mid range player) for $500. If you got a DVD player for $200 in March of 2000, you got one hell of a bargain.

 

I remember that I bought the PS2 in the year 2000 because here in europe the cost of a PSone+DVD Player was the same of the PS2.

 

QUOTE=Shogmaster]DVD players were $300 and over late 99/early 2000 in the US. The year before DC launch in the US (in the summer), I bought my first DVD player (Panasonic A310: a mid range player) for $500. If you got a DVD player for $200 in March of 2000, you got one hell of a bargain.[/QUOTE]


No they weren't . In 1999/2000 you could buy multi disc changers for 500$ . You could buy low end dvd players for 200$ . Others like function disagree with you

 

To be fair, I was thinking about the console's Western releases during late 2000. I'm not sure what a cheap DVD player would have cost in March 2000 in America, but I'm sure it would have been less than importing a PS2 ($1000+ wasn't it? I was seeing import PS2s in the UK for £800 odd!).

 

As there is very little anybody can do to prove what a standalone DVD player cost at the end of year 2000, I think it's pointless to argue about that.

Anyway, I can say for my part I do know I postponed buying a DVD player because PS2 was cheaper than the Pioneer, Sony, Panasonic...etc better known maker's standalones at that time. The cheapo unknown marks weren't available at all here then.

It did take a little less than a year until major manufacturer's DVD players at the price of €300 and below started to appear, making them equal at price with PS2.

Things might have been different at other parts of the world, though.

 

Actually it's dead easy - Google is your friend!

I remember the DC + standalone DVD player offer for £299.99 (DC was £149.99 at the time, PS2 was just launched at £299.99). Not sure how many it shifted. DC actually had a decent Christmas in the UK the year the PS2 came out (reasonable hardware and software sales and Sega Europe were actually making a profit IIRC). Machine was dumped 3 weeks later. There you go.

Given that games were mastered in each region, for that region, I wonder how practical releasing separate consoles for Europe and America would have been for Sega. Same basic hardware but with a DVD drive instead of a CD Rom drive and games coming on DVD (no need for CD reading in the unit, like PC DVD drives back then had).

 

For anyone that's interested (was looking for my own interest as more than anything) ...

http://news.com.com/2100-1040-235034.html?legacy=cnet

and

http://www.dvdinformation.com/News/press/010600a.html

 

Revolution WON'T be using DVDs as a game media.

 

And you got the information from.....

 

Ok, so it's confirmed DVD players at the region of $200 were available during PS2 launch in some parts of the world. Were they from the big manufacturers like Sony, Panasonic, Pioneer...? I'm pretty sure you could not have get a Sony player for that price, am I right?

Maybe I just thought if I bought a PS2 I'd get a DVD player and a video game console for the same price, when I held up buying a DVD player early 2000. Waiting a few months must have seemed the most sensible thing to do at that situation.

...why are we talking about the evolution of DVD player prices anyway?

 

I think the point is that the PS2 was a 'cheap DVD player' because it was also a powerful console. I took the view that it was a cheap DVD player, sure you could get cheaper DVD players...but they couldn't play games like the PS2 (and weren't top manufacturers IIRC).

Here's some links from the time...they all seem to say the same thing as me...

The Register

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2000/09/15/sony_boosts_playstation_2_dvd/

"Since British consumers are paying for the privilege - they'll have to fork out £299 ($470), while US buyers will pay $299 (£188) - we're glad they'll at least get a solid if pricey DVD player."

 

PS2 reviews:

http://www.michaeldvd.com.au/HardwareReviews/SonyPlayStation2/SonyPlayStation2.html

"The Sony PlayStation 2 was launched late last year amid much hoopla. Predominantly a games machine and a replacement for the Sony PlayStation, probably the most talked-about feature of the PlayStation 2 was its ability to play back DVDs. It was touted as the way in which many mainstream users would be introduced to the wonderful world of DVD. At a price of $749, it is comparable price-wise with a moderately-featured standalone DVD player, so it could be considered as either a stand-alone DVD player which can play games extremely well, or as a games console which can play DVDs reasonably well."

http://www.webwombat.com.au/entertainment/dvds/ps2dvd.htm

"if you take the view that primarily it's a games machine and that the DVD capability is a bonus, it's inexpensive at $750"

 

which are all wrong . You could have gotten a dreamcast and a dvd player for the same price as the ps2 if u shoped right

 

No disrespect, but everyone is wrong (i.e. the links provided are actual accounts of the time) and you are right. I happened to be working at Currys at the time and I can confirm MOST people were swayed by it's DVD playback features as being a massive bonus.

Don't forget it would also mean only 1 box, one set of leads and of course people still didn't trust Sega.

It's all very well 'shopping around' and getting great deals - but at the time people walking into the store walked out with PS2 because of it's DVD abilities also.

 

March 2000 PS2 released for £300

May 2000, DVD reduced to £200

http://www.dvd.reviewer.co.uk/reviews/hardware.asp?Index=1787

June 2000, DVD player reduced to £150

More POV at the time:

http://www.cafeaulait.org/2000march.html

"Sony's Playstation 2 has hit store shelves in Japan. The Internet Gaming Network has details. The system is backwards compatible with Playstation 1 games, something new in the console market where previous consoles have tended to ignore the installed base. Games can now be produced on either CD or DVD, and the console will play DVD movies. ($199 for a DVD player or $299 for a Playstation that's also a DVD player. I know which one I'm buying.)"