What are the ethics of PS3's potential security crack?*

So you are saying that the true cost is different to what they say? No argument from me there. But again that is not the point of this discussion.

I do have issues with exclusive distribution, however at the end of the day, it is still the copyright owners right to distribute as fairly or unfairly as they like. As long as they are not in a monopoly position, the market should deal with that.

 

Sorry didn't see a question in your original quote. Is there one?

Sure, I'm no Bill Gates, but this just backs up my position. He is the copyright holder, and so he can distribute his software as he sees fit. If he wants to give it away, thats entirely up to him. It's not up to you!

I'm not sure why this point is so hard to understand?

 

But they are in a monopoly position to some extent by default. If you are required to get a specific text book for a class you can't just buy a different one and hope it will work out well enough. If you are dying and need a specific drug that is still patented you can't just buy a generic aspirin and hope it will work out.

Obviously electronic stuff is different in that you won't die, and it is strictly optional, but you can't buy a replacement for certain things.

 

A response doesn't require a question. Similar to how the world trade centre bombings weren't questions yet the initiated war was a response. Understanding simple things like that would go a long way to convincing others your point had some actual thought behind it.

Its not hard to understand what you mean... its just pointless to do so. Nobody is trying to tell someone how to market their product.

 

I'd like to make it clear that George wasn't banned for his position in this thread. Far from it, I was actually happy to see the debate and have enjoyed the thread progression as an interested party.

He was banned because it turns out it's the guy's fifth (known) account here at B3D, and we don't allow additional accounts here after bans. A ban is just that, not an invitation to just sign up again and keep going.

Sorry if my decision hurts the discussion.

 

Just got into the thread. When I saw "Naughty Boy!" in his tag, I thought he's an "old customer". He's the one who got me to register @ B3D 3-4 years ago... in order to reply to one of his posts. ^_^

 

You needn't apologize for doing the right thing Rys

 

Fine by me. There's only so many times you can spell out the bleeding obvious.

 

Update December 2010:
A new crew announced retrieval of a private key allowing arbritrary signing of code. The technical discussion is held here. Videos describing this hack here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HEFMAP0mTvY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qFuTCEtK6l8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=84WI-jSgNMQ

The following posts are the non-tehcnical discussion of the reasons and ramifications of this hack.
[/mod]

Shouldn't have taken Linux away. Can't say I didn't tell them not to. Maybe Sony would've listened if I charged $25,000 for the same advice and declared it consulting.

 

Not part of the technical discussion, but the vid explains the reason for hacking as Linux, and yet while Linux was available no-one did anything with it. It'll be very interesting if PS3 Linux development gets anywhere now, or if Lonix on consoles is and ends to itself, and these hackers who want to open up the hardware only want to open the hardware and don't actually want to use it.

What would be nice is if they enabled you to swap old HDDs into new PS3s when one dies to copy over/backup your stuff. Or a better backup utility wouldn't go amiss.

 

Bullshit, OtherOS was a part of the Console until Geohot started to poke around, afaik without him doing that to begin with we would not be where we are now.

But wow, what a crappy effort by Sony, they brought this on themselves.. i just hope that they will be able to perma ban any cracked/hacked consoles from the PSN network.

 

That " They shouldn't take Linux away " thing is BS. I used PS3 Linux for 2-3 years and there weren't any useful homebrew app or something. All you had was VLC for video or Audio playback, Firefox for explorer etc. There were talks about SPE based video acceleration or something but that never happened or not useful. Where were these "penguin lovers" when we needed them? Did they have any useful project on PS3 Linux? I don't think so.

Anyway, what if Sony says "that Private keys are subject to intellectual property" and sue these guys?

 

It wasn't on PS3 Slim, however. So the reasoning is still valid no matter how much you personally dislike Geohot.

Regards,
SB

 

That's like saying the number 4 is subject to IP. Far better alternative is to pay these guys off and stop them from releasing the hack.

 

Big fat nothing that would do.
The way they did calculate the key was already presented, even if they dont release the key + tools themselfes that wont stop anyone else from doing it. The hard part was finding the hole/weakness (or epic fail as they titled it).

What wasnt covered is how much of the public key system is exposed through this, if this is just some firmware internal module then you could change the whole system with an update.
If everything is done this way then you can recreate all keys for every released PSN and Retail game, its just not feasible to counter this.. well expect losing all compatibility to PS3 games and calling the console PS4 after a Firmware update.

Quite doesnt work this way. Creating software might be just a practical sideeffect of the fun part - that is hacking around in the system. Its like sex, mostly you dont do it for the long-lasting consequences (STD or kids).

 

But that key is not that simple. Look at what marcan said about it ;

42 digits, contains letters and numbers.

 

It's still a number in the end, and you cannot claim IP on a number. I can't copyright 84^984! for example. It also doesn't contain letters, that's just hexadecimal representation.

 

i think the funniest thing here is the apparent claim by the hackers that linux removal was the sole purpose of the whole hacking. When linux was present on the system what apps have these guys actually developed? Nothing. Absolutely nothing. Did they actually widen the field for linux development for the ps3? nope.

This whole exercise is firstly the efame aspect to it. Secondly it's about showing the finger to large corporations and in this case sony. The consequences of this matter little to nerds because let's face it, they don't hack for altruistic reasons at all.

 

Very likely, yes. However, Linux on PS3 with full RSX support would still be neat. It would be fun to have the RSX render some nicely shaded triangles whose position and animation were Cell driven.

 

This incident has a different twist. Besides RSX access, you can actually run you own programs in Sony's GameOS. It's much more attractive than OtherOS.

I wonder how difficult it is to run Linux apps inside GameOS.