we keep talking about Graphics tech development but

notAFanB

Veteran
well what about controller evolution? since the (re)introdution of analogue inputs I don't see anything making a similar (nevermind larger) impact in the near future.

I feel we are reaching the limits of immersion using current controller setups so whats the alternative? dances mats , Eye-toy type motion detectors?
 
Well not every game is as good at handling controls. With the same Console/Pad combo, some games make you remember you have a controller in your hand, because you're fighting it instead of trying to beat the game, while others make you forget about the controller completely.

The Legend Of Zelda : The Wind Waker is a good exemple of a game in which you forget you have a controller in your hands.
 
Ingenu said:
Well not every game is as good at handling controls. With the same Console/Pad combo, some games make you remember you have a controller in your hand, because you're fighting it instead of trying to beat the game, while others make you forget about the controller completely.

The Legend Of Zelda : The Wind Waker is a good exemple of a game in which you forget you have a controller in your hands.

Basically, everytime I have to think about which bouton I have to press (which is happening a lot in ps2 games with lots of option mapped) it is a failure in game design IMO.
 
notAFanB said:
well what about controller evolution? since the (re)introdution of analogue inputs I don't see anything making a similar (nevermind larger) impact in the near future.

I feel we are reaching the limits of immersion using current controller setups so whats the alternative? dances mats , Eye-toy type motion detectors?

Well, every time I thought Nintendo couldn't come up with a better controller for their own games, they have surprised me. SM64 was great with the N64 controller, WindWaker has even better intuitive controls. Their next controller will definitely improve the experience while playing mainly their games. But there's a downside to this: Some genres (e.g.: beat'em ups) suffer from the design.

I think what to expect of next gen controllers is more wireless joy. Maybe rechargeable controllers with rumble effects.

Now company specific:

Nintendo: New button lay-out & ergonomics geared more towards their games.
Sony: Probably very similar, since Sony might wanna have a controller that fits most games well
Microsoft: seriously overworked ergonomics. Same button count, though.
 
I don't know what to think of PS3's controllers.

They aren't going to ditch the classic Playstation control scheme. But maybe they will touch up the controller a bit? Use better plastics or analog grip.

I also think they will call them Triple Shocks.
 
On the contrary, I think Sony is almost forced come up with something better next time. Nintendo and ms are not going to rest on the laurels, and pass off the chance to differentiate themselves from their competitors in the regard.
 
Squeak said:
On the contrary, I think Sony is almost forced come up with something better next time. Nintendo and ms are not going to rest on the laurels, and pass off the chance to differentiate themselves from their competitors in the regard.

compatibilty with ps2 games will seriously limit the evolution of the ps3 controller.
 
MfA said:
Put tilt sensors in there.

I was thinking something similar, perhaps including motion / G-force sensors as well. That way you could tap the pad to a beat, or shake it in the air (rage style) and get input from that.

Force feedback on the analogue sticks would be nice, but is probably a little out the price range for mass market controllers.

Building headset or microphone sockets into pads might be a good idea in the future, especially with the potential for mutiple players online, on the same. I actually used to think the headphone sockets on 3DO pads were sort of cool, in a "it'll go wrong and never get used" kind of way.
 
I think they should put full color back lit low res lcd screens into the controllers, if they're going to push that gba-gc link up thing, at least make it usable without suffering with a crappy controller or swapping back and forth.
 
Eventually I think they'll develop a controller with an adjustable size, and possibly even movable buttons/sticks.

For example, what if you wanted to move the D-Pad to where the A-Stick is for certain games? I bet you'll see that function.
 
If you haven't seen it yet, here is the next step in controller design;

237721.jpg



You never have to take your thumbs off of the two analogue sticks, you use your middle and ring fingers for the face buttons. It really works great for FPS and any other game that requires the use of both analogue sticks and the face buttons.
 
IMO Nintendo should allow third-party devs to rearrange the buttons a bit...

A GCN pad with the face buttons all the same size would be pretty handy for a few games.

Next gen, the standard pad layout should stop being the be-all, end-all of design (almost all third-party pads adhere to the original spec far too much).

Also, Sony needs to make a pad with the left stick in PRIMARY position. I mean, seriously, WTF? For the system(s) that arguably made 3D graphics and gaming mainstream, Sony is the only company without a stick in primary position... hell, even SATURN had it in the right place on its analogue pad.
 
Eh, I don't think any companies require 3rd party companies to adhere strictly to the original controller design, in fact, I'd think they'd discourage it.(otherwise the controllers would be exactly the same!) But unlicensed 3rd party gear can be made anyway they like, and if there is a need for it(just call it like a "fighter pad") then it shouldn't be too hard to get a license from nintendo or sony or microsoft to make the pad.
 
Also, Sony needs to make a pad with the left stick in PRIMARY position.

Actually its better, the way Sony does it. Less strained on your thumb.

Though I would change, their d-pad to a Dreamcast one, and their analog to Xbox one and L2 and R2 to GC analog R&L, and make it wireless. But keep most everything where they are, maybe make it a little bit larger.
 
In general I always thought controllers were lacking either because the developer tried doing to much with what they had like playing syndicate (wars) on a psx vs a pc or due to shoddy button layours. In november of last year after a lot of sc players convinced me through facts and getting a namco stick of my own did I realize arcade sticks own pads for fighters. The same went for racing then again playing in arcades for most of my racing experiences taught me that lesson. Rarely ever do I want pad except when I play tetris or games where a dpad just naturally fits it. I do wonder though like others how sony will cope with the controller thing if they go backwards compatible. They can do a new design using the same input so people can still do ps2 and psx games yet use a new design in regards to a button layout, analouge sticks and a dpad.
 
Tagrineth said:
Also, Sony needs to make a pad with the left stick in PRIMARY position.

Actually, I'm rather hoping they press the attractiveness of the controller for developing dual-analog control, as they're the only controller capable of taking full advantage of it for games. They are aligned evenly, and offer a total of 6 buttons for access when holding the controller that way--four analog triggers and pressing the analog sticks themselves down (not optimal, but at least available). Even just using the four triggers, though, they should offer plenty of options, as one can assign differences to button combinations as well as light clicking versus the full analog pull range. (Not as exacting as the triggers on GC or Xbox tho, so they could work to enhance that. They MUST remain buttons for that, though--just better buttons.) This could certainly be used excellently in all cockpit-view sims and first-person shooters, and any games specifically designed towards dual-stick control. The way the GC and Xbox controllers are set up now, you'd have to hold them at perverse angles to operate both sticks well (and the Gamecube's two would have notably different feels), at which point you'd have damn few controls at your disposal unless you moved your thumbs off their stick. The PS2 controller is still my favorite, as I like its light weight, simplicity of design while carrying more complexity of function, which adds to the versatility of use, as it lets me shift my playstyle dramatically depending on the game. (And it remains the only controller I could imagine playing Bemani games on--even ignoring that they're only on Playstations anyway. ;) [Well, excepting DDR now, but that doesn't involve the normal controller.] )

The main thing they could do to make the PS2's analog use more comfortable would be to set them down a bit more and perhaps push them slightly outward so one doesn't have to stretch one's thumb as much. They could still keep both the left analog and D-pad use equally comfortable. The rest of the changes would be cosmetic: better/more-sensitive buttons and analog sticks, better materials, better texturing, better grip, enhance the D-pad comfort and accuracy. (I rather like the Xbox-S's D-pad, I just don't like it's position for playing games where that is primary control.)

Nintendo's controller I look forward to in general now. The N64's was unique and interesting, and the GameCube's is very solid and easy to get lots in control. (I usually only break out of my reverie if I have to hit the Z-button.) But the point was made--and is certainly true--that their design is not used best only in 1st-party games, while it can be very fumbling or even cripple others. (For me especially with fighting games, as I want D-pad control, and it's puke-worthy on the GameCube's controller.) I'm interested to see what they come up with next, but I'm not expecting too great a shift. I think it's more likely that they may move closer to uniform design to increase ease-of-use with 3rd party developers, or that they will not change their current one overly. (Perhaps improving Z-button location and size, and add another on the other side.)

The Xbox's I'm not sure about. I can see them going to a 6-button main face control, perhaps (making lots of Street Fighters happy ;) ), or perhaps moving away from two large triggers to fit four shoulder buttons in somehow. I'd certainly like to see the other guys offer the break-away fronts the Xbox controllers have; that's just handy and clever.

Overall changes I expect on all fronts would be material and button quality, as well as improving vibration as we go along. (Though that's pretty good right now. Developers need to use it better as it is.)

New tech that we DON'T have right now but I would like to see? Well, in the main controllers I'd like gyroscopic sensors inside as well. I'm sure games could make interesting things of tilting and controller-movement. A screen on the controller itself would also be handy. The Dreamcast got a bit of it with the VMU memory cards but didn't make much of it, but there are certainly a lot of handy things one could get from small screen capabilites on the controller itself, especially for multi-player games to avoid screen clutter or windowing. I figure it would add WAY too much cost to get decent screens on the controllers, but we were talking about what we'd LIKE to see too, ne? ;) (I'd also like touch-sensitive ones. Wooo! Hehe.)

For other controllers, I'd like to see at the very least a good one that can map body movement well (a la Police 911, not EyeToy) as the very least. I also just hope in general that the consoles will allow USB controllers so PC and console can utilize each other's to enhance the gaming all around.
 
The Vmu was really game dependent like in sc it just showed the character you were using doing a stupid animation vs virtua tennis where you could literally own someone using a vmu if you had the skill. For fighters the only pad I liked was the sega genesis 6 button or saturn digital the rest seemed meh. While the dual shock is versatile in racers and platforms I find myself wishing for a gc controller.
 
cthellis42 said:
The way the GC and Xbox controllers are set up now, you'd have to hold them at perverse angles to operate both sticks well

What the hell are you talking about? When I play TimeSplitters 2 or Turok: Evolution I hold my pad the same way I always do, just with my right thumb lower.

at which point you'd have damn few controls at your disposal unless you moved your thumbs off their stick.

The reason PS2 has more controls available is because it has more shoulder buttons, not because of where the sticks are. WTF. Xbox's sticks 'click' as buttons too but its left stick is in primary position.

The main thing they could do to make the PS2's analog use more comfortable would be to set them down a bit more and perhaps push them slightly outward so one doesn't have to stretch one's thumb as much.

Set them DOWN more? So you don't have to stretch your thumb as much? Good lord!

They could still keep both the left analog and D-pad use equally comfortable.

PS2 D-pad != comfortable... not because of location, but because of design.

Nintendo's controller I look forward to in general now. The N64's was unique and interesting, and the GameCube's is very solid and easy to get lots in control. (I usually only break out of my reverie if I have to hit the Z-button.)

Why does everyone make such a big deal about the Z button?

When I started playing TimeSplitters 2, I just got into the habit of having my index finger on Z and middle finger on R, and now I always hold GC pads that way, for any games. No discomfort of any kind. I think people's problem with Z stems from keeping index on R, and lifting the finger over the front ridge of the R trigger is kinda awkward... but the way I hold it (and have been holding it for over a year, IIRC), that is completely avoided.

New tech that we DON'T have right now but I would like to see? Well, in the main controllers I'd like gyroscopic sensors inside as well. I'm sure games could make interesting things of tilting and controller-movement.

My friend and I have a running gag going about how complicated button combinations are starting to get for games, where whenever someone asks if *** non-existant or impossible move can be done, we answer with some ridiculous answer involving tossing the pad in the air, doing backflips, etc...

A screen on the controller itself would also be handy. The Dreamcast got a bit of it with the VMU memory cards but didn't make much of it, but there are certainly a lot of handy things one could get from small screen capabilites on the controller itself, especially for multi-player games to avoid screen clutter or windowing.

*cough*NINTENDO*cough*
 
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