Want to move, to Europe somewhere

[Sonic]

So yeah. I love it in San Francisco for the most part but I'm starting to feel a need for different surroundings. The reasons behind this are partly political climate (not here in SF, but in US overall) and wanting to connect with people maybe a bit more like me, and overall wanting to live in a place that is pretty superb.

Now I guess there's some obstacles here naturally. I speak English as my primary language and know a little Spanish. If learning a new language is necessary, which I imagine it to be, then I will gladly do it.

I know lots of you live in Europe and will be able to help me out here.

Are there places to live where marijuana usage is legal/decriminalized? Serious for me as I do love to smoke weed. It's not a deal breaker, but the more pot friendly the place the better.

My political leanings are more left leaning and also maximizing individual liberty.
What's it like when it comes to nature and parks in Europe as a whole? Too general I know, what are the parks and nature like where you are?

And I guess what countries is it relatively easy to immigrate to from the US? I'm not interested in England at all. Not at all. Ireland is another thing, but I'm thinking mainland Europe here.

Thank you.

 

[Dominik D]

Define "people like me", please.
And, seriously, admiting on a public forum that you like weed is not the smartest thing to do. But yeah, Amsterdam, Netherlands is probably for you.

 

[Freak'n Big Panda]

San Fransisco, IMO, has to be one of the best cities in North America. Your very lucky to live there!

And, seriously, admiting on a public forum that you like weed is not the smartest thing to do. But yeah, Amsterdam, Netherlands is probably for you.

Lol do you think the cops have enough time on their hands to browse forums and try to track people down from the internet only to arrest them for smoking weed? Not a chance. You might as well be afraid that your house is going to get hit by a meteor.

Anyways to address the question. Weed is indeed legal in Holland, but I don't know if you'd find what your looking for there. I have a friend who I've known for a couple years that lives in holland and it sounds like that by and large people there are the same as people here. Same sort of ignorance everywhere. Maybe not quite a crazy as in the US but I've never been to holland so I can't say.

Move to Tokyo Or Paris/London/Berlin. All are very safe choices

 

[Dominik D]

Lol do you think the cops have enough time on their hands to browse forums and try to track people down from the internet only to arrest them for smoking weed? Not a chance. You might as well be afraid that your house is going to get hit by a meteor.

You make some wrong assumption that I'm afraid of police and than you diss me? Pretty cool. Even though most people use nicknames, it's not that hard to track down your Internet identity. Your next potential employer may and will do some background check. I've seen cases where people got "no hire" because of being openly stupid online. And I can assure you that if I was an employer, smoking weed would be a "no hire" in my book.

I was about to say that if by any chance you want to be a president, you may fail if you did something stupid like admiting online you smoke weed. But then I relized it's not true in some countries. :S

 

[Sonic]

I smoke marijuana. It is decriminalized in San Francisco (for the most part). Cops will gladly write you a ticket for jaywalking before they look you twice over for smoking a joint.

People like me: I'm an atheist. I'm laid back, relaxed. Heavy into the art scene and really like artist type cities. San Francisco is like that. I like hippies though I'm not one myself. I guess a city that has a lot of sub culture in it I would enjoy. I'm big into music...either rock and reggae/dub. I'm pretty open minded when it comes to different things and political perspectives but am way to the left myself. I like warm weather, kinda prefer SF's awkward mediterranean like climate over others, but if it gets cold I can bundle up without problems. Honestly, if it is a city with a big sense of community and people getting along in general then I'd like that over a place whre it's super fast paced and noone takes time out of their day to say hi.

Not to take this off topic but I don't really care if a potential employer finds I smoke weed. Not really a big deal to me as my line of work requires zero drug tests. I work in an environment that does not discriminate against those who use marijuana and do ask my employees to be open and honest about it. But that's as far as I'll take this!

 

[_xxx_]

The only two countries worth living in and also allowing weed to a certain extent and Netherlands and Switzerland. Keep away from Germany and other overly EU-poisoned countries, it's like a mini-USA nowadays and getting worse daily.

 

[Bludd]

Except for the pot thing, I think you would like Norway.

 

[Arwin]

Is it any option for you at all to go on a small reconnaisance holiday?

There are a lot of cool places to stay in Europe I think. Where I live now (Maastricht, in the Netherlands), is the farthest south you can get in the Netherlands, which helps with the weather a little, but also puts you near some decent nature (the Ardennes, Schwarzwald, etc.) with other countries at very acceptable distances (look it up on the map) and some cheap flights to other destinations from Brussels and Dusseldorf(Weeze) reasonably nearby. Also, this area is good for music (Belgium even more so I think) and my father-in-law (a 75 year old inventer who invents easy to make stuff for people in poor countries) lives in a culturally quite interesting and happening place called landbouwbelang.

From the way you describe yourself, I think you could also be happy in Spain. Maybe Barcelona, or Sevilla. The climate is certainly warmer there, and both places are culturally very interesting.

Norway is also a great place. I know a few Americans who settled there very happily. It can be very quiet here and there though, with not too much happening (in my experience).

 

[epicstruggle]

Move to Tokyo

You know if i wasnt tied down, Id really give that part of the world a shot. Japan/Korea/Taiwan all seem like interesting places to live.

 

[tongue_of_colicab]

If you want to smoke weed than Holland should be fine for you. Also you dont have to learn the language right away as most people around here speak decent enough english though you should learn dutch in the long run, its not very social to be here and not learn our language. Its probably pretty easy to get a visa too. Afterall we allow every poor basterd looking for state money to live from and not work in so than you should be fine.

But its not like Holland is perfect. Our government are idiots that only know how to empty your bank account and waste all the money on who knows what. You pay your ass of for road taxes, fuel, half your pay goes to the government (if you have a decent salary, otherwise 1/3), to many immigrants that dont adjust themselves to us if you ask me (certainly in Amsterdam, half of the people living there isnt even dutch).

OTOH things are pretty laid back here, you can pretty much do what you want and nobody will really be botherd by it.

You know if i wasnt tied down, Id really give that part of the world a shot. Japan/Korea/Taiwan all seem like interesting places to live.

I'm going to Japan for some time in 2 years (if things work out). I think its a nice place to live, like it how you can just leave your bike on the streets without locking it and stuff like that. Though I defenitly think there are some downsides too. Like the work ethics which I couldnt live with if they really are what people say they are (work long hours, dont ask overpay etc). But certainly if money isnt the problem I think you can really enjoy yourself there.

 

[Arwin]

If you want to smoke weed than Holland should be fine for you. Also you dont have to learn the language right away as most people around here speak decent enough english though you should learn dutch in the long run, its not very social to be here and not learn our language. Its probably pretty easy to get a visa too. Afterall we allow every poor basterd looking for state money to live from and not work in so than you should be fine.

But its not like Holland is perfect. Our government are idiots that only know how to empty your bank account and waste all the money on who knows what. You pay your ass of for road taxes, fuel, half your pay goes to the government (if you have a decent salary, otherwise 1/3), to many immigrants that dont adjust themselves to us if you ask me (certainly in Amsterdam, half of the people living there isnt even dutch).

Actually, that's not all true. The Netherlands has some of the lowest tax-levels in the Western world and is closest to the U.S. of any European country (last figure I saw was something like 25% vs 34% or something like that). We went through a lot of modernisation of the social system, which may not always have been nice, but does pay off if you compare us to a country like Sweden were people are otherwise not that much better off (i.e. in terms of happiness and welfare, we're both in the top 10 of the world, close to each other). Also, already many years ago under Bolkestein, so even before Pim Fortuyn, immigration was cut down from 45.000 a year at the beginning of 'Paars' (the name of a great government that has fallen from grace because they were bad at national PR ) to just 15.000 at the end. I don't think you'll see any government cut that down further, as we need them to sustain the population. Rather than that you'll see more pressure to have immigrants integrated into society, which was a rightful criticism of Paars (and all the governements before Paars, mind you).

I'm going to Japan for some time in 2 years (if things work out). I think its a nice place to live, like it how you can just leave your bike on the streets without locking it and stuff like that.

Basically everyone who is unemployed is put on the corner of a street to watch over the neighbourhood, right? Melkert may well have taken his inspiration from Japan.

Though I defenitly think there are some downsides too. Like the work ethics which I couldnt live with if they really are what people say they are (work long hours, dont ask overpay etc). But certainly if money isnt the problem I think you can really enjoy yourself there.

This is definitely one of the things I like best about the Netherlands. You have a guaranteed minimum of 5 weeks of holiday (days added for certain ages) and while work-ethic is actually quite high, you're allowed to not answer your phone outside of work-hours. And more importantly, once you have a contract, you can almost always work 4 days a week if you want to - your employer has to prove that their business will fail if you don't work 5 days. I recently got a kid and started working 4 days a week, and I'm very happy about it. My wife works 3 days right now also, and daycare is actually still fairly affordable (less than 200 euro a month for 3 days a week).

One final note - we don't have legalised (well almost, coffeeshops still can't buy wholesale legally, for some reason) marihuana, abortion, euthanasia, gay marriage and prostituation because we don't care. It's because we do care (and again, many of these we owe to Paars ).

 

[StefanS]

So yeah. I love it in San Francisco for the most part but I'm starting to feel a need for different surroundings. The reasons behind this are partly political climate (not here in SF, but in US overall) and wanting to connect with people maybe a bit more like me, and overall wanting to live in a place that is pretty superb.

Now I guess there's some obstacles here naturally. I speak English as my primary language and know a little Spanish. If learning a new language is necessary, which I imagine it to be, then I will gladly do it.

I know lots of you live in Europe and will be able to help me out here.

Are there places to live where marijuana usage is legal/decriminalized? Serious for me as I do love to smoke weed. It's not a deal breaker, but the more pot friendly the place the better.

My political leanings are more left leaning and also maximizing individual liberty.
What's it like when it comes to nature and parks in Europe as a whole? Too general I know, what are the parks and nature like where you are?

As for language the safest bets for you would be the Netherlands or some of the Scandinavian countries. Most of the people in the metropolitan areas speak very good English.

Marijuana would narrow that down to the Netherlands. An acquaintance of mine has moved to Amsterdam a few years ago and she's quite happy there. It a very nice city and if you're a bike nut you're gonna love the cities in the Netherlands anyway (apart from the rampant bike theft that is; if you look at the bike locks it seems nothing short of a big gigantic lock out of specialized hardened carbon steel is a deterrent).
Moreover, she told me that Dutch is pretty easy to pick up (at least if you speak German Don't know if it's the same for an English native speaker).

But you also said you're into art... Personally I can really recommend Berlin, which has a pretty active and booming art scene. Definitely worth checking out...

 

[_xxx_]

Oh, forgot a big one: Vienna. Great, great city and very nice people. I'd love to live there. They also tolerate weed too, although the trade is illegal.

 

[StefanS]

Oh, forgot a big one: Vienna. Great, great city and very nice people. I'd love to live there. They also tolerate weed too, although the trade is illegal.

That's not correct. Possession of small quantities of marijuana (depending on the quantity of the active agent present in the substance; 20g of pure THC) is decriminalized, not legal: the police can take away your driver's license (if you're tested positive while driving a motorized vehicle; blood testing) or you might have to undergo regular urine testing as a result or a psych evaluation (there's a big leeway for the prosecution here, usually they won't prosecution unless a similar demeanour has committed in the last few years).

Details

Strafverfahren wegen des Erwerbs und Besitzes geringer Mengen Suchtmittel müssen im Allgemeinen nach Maßgabe der §§ 35 und 36 SMG von der Staatsanwaltschaft für eine Probezeit von zwei Jahren zurückgelegt werden. Die vorläufige Zurücklegung der Anzeige setzt eine Stellungnahme der Bezirksverwaltungsbehörde als Gesundheitsbehörde voraus, ob der Angezeigte einer gesundheitsbezogenen Maßnahme gemäß § 11 Abs. 2 SMG bedarf. Deswegen ist eine Anzeige wegen Suchtmittelbesitzes meist mit einer sozialmedizinischen oder psychiatrischen Untersuchung verbunden. Die Staatsanwaltschaft kann von der Einholung einer Stellungnahme der Bezirksverwaltungsbehörde absehen, wenn eine Person ausschließlich deshalb angezeigt wird, weil sie Stoffe oder Zubereitungen aus der Cannabispflanze in geringer Menge zum eigenen Gebrauch erworben oder besessen hat, und wenn kein Grund zur Annahme besteht, dass die Person einer gesundheitsbezogenen Maßnahme bedarf. Eine Stellungnahme ist jedoch einzuholen, wenn eine Person innerhalb der letzten fünf Jahre vor dieser Anzeige bereits deswegen angezeigt wurde.

Bedarf der Angezeigte aufgrund der Beurteilung durch einen mit Suchtmittelfragen vertrauten Facharzt einer gesundheitsbezogenen Maßnahme gemäß § 11 Abs. 2 SMG, so hat die Staatsanwaltschaft die vorläufige Zurücklegung der Anzeige davon abhängig zu machen, dass sich der Angezeigte – hat er einen gesetzlichen Vertreter, mit dessen Zustimmung – bereit erklärt, sich einer solchen Maßnahme zu unterziehen. Alternativ kann die Zurücklegung der Anzeige von einer regelmäßigen Betreuung durch einen Bewährungshelfer abhängig gemacht werden (§ 37 SMG).

Die Zurücklegung der Anzeige nach § 35 SMG ist daher meist mit einer Überwachung des Gesundheitszustandes des Angezeigten verbunden. Wenn sich der Angezeigte nach Einschätzung der Bezirksverwaltungsbehörde einer Überwachung beharrlich entzieht, muss dies der Staatsanwaltschaft mitgeteilt werden, was meist die Einleitung oder Fortsetzung des Strafverfahrens zur Folge hat (§ 38 SMG).

 

[_xxx_]

Laws this way or the other, I joined people smoking pot in clubs and cafes there quite often. Last year in a club called Flex. They even had inserts for rolling joints integrated into kicker tables.

 

[_xxx_]

Well yeah, that's why I said it's being "tolerated" instead of "legal" Will have to visit Vienna again soon, it's been too long dammit.

 

[Karoshi]

Spain is quite lax in the joints department. Hash is more popular than weed. Just dont start rolling in front of a police squad. You may want to throw away whatever you are carrying if police wants to search you. Just be discreet. Chic pubs may not like it if you smoke, in packed normal bars you can smoke, if you are not doing a show out of it.
Spain can not be considered leftist.

 

[Humus]

The Netherlands has some of the lowest tax-levels in the Western world and is closest to the U.S. of any European country (last figure I saw was something like 25% vs 34% or something like that).

Unless something dramatically changed the last few years that's not quite true. From the numbers I found (2005) the US was at 26.8% and Netherlands at 37.5% and plenty of European countries have lower tax pressure than you have. Netherlands seems to be slightly above OECD average and slightly below EU15 average.

 

[Sonic]

Yeah, I do plan on visiting the prospective places I ponder moving to. I'm up in the air to make it an official vacation and splurge the money or if I'll end up backpacking or whatever.

Weed isn't a make it or break it situation. I just want to be able to smoke a joint without being harassed by cops who thinks it is their civic and moral duty to bust me for doing something harmless. That's why I like San Francisco. While it may be illegal (without cannabis card) it is highly decriminalized and the fine is like $100 or something. But the other thing is, cops literally walk past you smoking up whether it be a joint or a pipe and the most they will do is tell you to take it somewhere private. If you're selling then it's a different story, but consumption is fairly normal for at least half the people in this city. I honestly know more people that smoke weed here than don't whether they be rich with families and kids or just students and artists trying to make it on their own. That's the type of attitude towards pot I'm looking for in a new place to live.

But seriously! I'm sick and tired of the politics in the US and it's pissing me off to such an extent. I'm still young, not attached (other than a business, but that can run itself), and by next year in the fal hopefully moving to a place as dynamic and wonderful as San Francisco, but the rest of the country falls in line with it as well.

Thanks for wealth of info so far. The Netherlands sounds like my place and that will be one of the places I plan on visiting. Vienna sounds like I should be visiting there as well. Also good to hear the Netherlands is a pretty bike friendly place.

 

[Cheezdoodles]

Move to switzerland. Its legal to grow weed there i think, that or if possession up to 20g pure thc is legal\decriminalized? 20g pure THC is ALOT of weed. A ridiculous amount, might aswell just legalize it, 20g pure thc is ALOT of weed and a very very fat join is max 1.5g weed, if the weed is very good 30% of that is thc, so.. I'm stoned pretty much 50% of my awake time and 100g of weed (~20g thc) would last me 4-5 months.

Atleast a friend of my gf live in switzerland with her boyfriend that grows weed there now, and she thinks its legal to grow there (maybe he just told her it was legal, lol).

Many other upsides to switzerland, high standart of living, good chocolate, and nice mountains\nature.

If its illegal to grow in switzerland, the only place left is holland. I wish i could have said Norway, but sadly, getting good green here is ridiculously hard lately (police recently did this major weed operation, took out like 40 plantations near Oslo (capital city).