Upgrading Review Test System

Reverend

Banned
It's been a long time coming. I haven't been really following the whole chipset and CPU scene but the hardware shop guy I'm quite familiar with has suggested the following two important components :

1) AMD Athlon 3200+ Barton
2) Abit NF7-S mobo

The existing oldie is a AthlonXP 2000+

Is the above suggestion okay? The hardware shop guy did tell me I could save a bunch of money by going with a 2500+ where ("if I'm lucky" were his words) I could o/c the thing to 3200+ speeds but I don't want any risks associated with overclocking for something as important/sensitive as a test review system.

Thanks in advance for comments.
 
Reverend said:
It's been a long time coming. I haven't been really following the whole chipset and CPU scene but the hardware shop guy I'm quite familiar with has suggested the following two important components :

1) AMD Athlon 3200+ Barton
2) Abit NF7-S mobo

An alternative would be the Asus A7N8X series (the Deluxe versions have more extras on the spec). I've had very good experiences with mine. If you are going for an Athlon board, is pretty much a no-brainer to go with the Nvidia Nforce 2 chipsets. They seem to have a lot less compatabiltiy and stability issues than Via, and the decent on-board sound allows you to get rid of the ever-flaky Creative Soundblasters.

Just don't bother with any of the Nvidia special IDE drivers (stick with the default Microsoft ones). A lot of people get weird and wacky problems with the Nvidia IDE drivers.
 
So if I go with the Abit NForce2 board, I don't really need to install my old SB Live? Yippee!

PS. Where tf can I find the latest NForce2 drivers (in case I go with the Abit)?
 
Reverend said:
So if I go with the Abit NForce2 board, I don't really need to install my old SB Live? Yippee!

PS. Where tf can I find the latest NForce2 drivers (in case I go with the Abit)?

I'm not sure on the Abit spec. If it's one of the Deluxe-style boards with Nvidia Soundstorm, then I wouldn't bother installing the Creative cards until you've lived with the Soundstorm. Then you'll probably find you don't need the SB cards.

Edit: Just looked at the spec for the ABit NF7-S has Soundstorm, so I'd use that as an opportunity to dump Creative soundcards alltogether.

Latest Nforce drivers are at http://www.nvidia.com/content/drivers/drivers.asp - just chose the unified/nforce unified driver for your OS. During the install, you'll be asked if you want to install the Nvidia Nforce IDE drivers - say no at this point.
 
If you're staying with AMD, the best platform out there is the nForce2 with the MCP-T southbridge. It's worth the extra money to get the SoundStorm APU.

I've been using my Epox 8RDA+ since November 2002 and haven't used my SB Audigy since then. I'm running 1Gig of Corsair XMS-3500-CAS2 in dual-channel with great results. Recently, I upgraded my main cpu to a Barton 2500+ OEM. The default speed is 1.83Ghz [11*166Mhz FSB] at 1.65Volts. Using default core voltage I've had mine running 2.3Ghz [11.5*200Mhz FSB]. With some additional voltage [1.95 Volts] I have mine running at 2.5Ghz [12.5*200]. Using the AMD PR ratings for a 200Mhz FSB, this equates to XP3800+. :D Granted, I'm running on a koolance watercooled rig, but it seems a 2.1Ghz raw clock-speed is nearly guaranteed. Most folks air-cooling with a SLK-900A are hitting near 2.4Ghz raw speed. The XP3200+ runs at 2.2Ghz [11*200].

Make sure you get some high-quality memory PC3500-CAS2 to run in dual-channel mode. On the nForce2 platform, lower latency via CAS is more important than running at higher FSBs {typically CAS2@200 is faster than CAS2.5@217}.
 
Is the 3200+ really worth the extra money compared to a 3000+? Here in Denmark a 3200+ is 3400 kr. and 3000+ 2000 kr. Quite a price difference! :?
 
The Abit nf7-s is the deluxe style board, but it is chearper than the others for various reasons such as not having as many riser cards, with the cable digital out and what not. It still has optical spdif, and everything that you need. Of course make sure you get a later revision, but I think the first revision is not sold anywhere anymore. Nvidia has drivers for it on their site, and bios is found on Abit's site.

btw I am the happiest with my current MB that I have ever been. The only board that came close to providing as much satisfatction was my old bh6 chipset board (i forget who manufactured it tho).
 
Have a look at this XbitLabs article on integrated audio tests for a nice rundown of SoundStorm features and how it compares with SB Audigy 2. In their tests, the performance is extremely close between the two.
 
When you upgrade your system, is it possible that you compare the old CPU/Board with the new CPU/Board?
i have currently a Athlon 1800+ with KT133A Board and i'm thinking, if an upgrade would be a good idea.

its somehow depressing, when a 2000+ Athlon is considered old and has to be replaced when i still have a 1800+ :(
 
Sxotty said:
The only board that came close to providing as much satisfatction was my old bh6 chipset board (i forget who manufactured it tho).

If my memory serves me correctly, that would be Abit too.

So, people are happy with their Abit boards? My experience with Abit, albeit quite small, has been one of strange compatibility problems that turn out impossible to solve, while Asus and MSI have been very kind to me in that regard. Is that only happening to me? (Real question, not rhetorical.)
 
Mabye you guys should ait another month or two. That way we can see some athlon 64 test systems .
 
SoundStorm is nice if you'll be outputting the sound optically to a DD receiver. Otherwise, onboard sound will be onboard sound--probably crappy. If you're outputting to analog speakers or headphones, you'll probably want to keep the SB Live.

I'm intrigued by an Athlon64, too, though it's probably way too expensive and too far off the beaten path to reasonably compare to most users' systems. Sure'd be nice, though. :)
 
Pete said:
SoundStorm is nice if you'll be outputting the sound optically to a DD receiver. Otherwise, onboard sound will be onboard sound--probably crappy. If you're outputting to analog speakers or headphones, you'll probably want to keep the SB Live.

The reason why Soundstorm is doing so well is because it is way above the quality normally expected for intergrated sound solutions. The reason why I dodn't bother reinstalling my Creative card when I upgraded my A7N8X:

1. Extremely low CPU usage with Soundstorm.
2. Not dealing with problematic Creative drivers and all their foibles, and thus much increased stability.
 
horvendile said:
Sxotty said:
The only board that came close to providing as much satisfatction was my old bh6 chipset board (i forget who manufactured it tho).

If my memory serves me correctly, that would be Abit too.

So, people are happy with their Abit boards? My experience with Abit, albeit quite small, has been one of strange compatibility problems that turn out impossible to solve, while Asus and MSI have been very kind to me in that regard. Is that only happening to me? (Real question, not rhetorical.)

I had an ABIT 815E based board that was terrible. And the ASUS board on my P4 system was not up to par either (see SIG). Personally I believe that ABIT is not trustworthy on their first revision anymore, perhaps all MB makers are untrustworthy on the first revision, and from now on I will force myself to wait. I got a revision 1.0 NF7-S, and due to ????? the CPU and MB both died. I never really new what happened I did overclock it some, but I have a swiftech waterblock and it was not hot at all, just suddenly quit working. (Actually I kinda thought it was my power supply which is why as you can see I got a "real" one now instead of cheap one that comes with case).

P.S. btw I have never gotten an MSI, but I dislike ASUS b/c they do not use standard Nforce drivers so you have to wait for them to release their drivers after Nvidia does.

P.P.S. My friend has a leadtek MB based on Nforce and it is actually quite good, was less than $100 for the one with soundstorm, it is stable but I don't think it is for the "overclocker" type.
 
Imo the Abit, Asus and Epox are almost equal. Failures of the motherboard is just bad luck. The Abit is the cheapest here, Asus the most expensive. From my own experience, i woud go for the Asus. I had this year alone, 3 Abits NF7, 1 Asus A7N8X Deluxe and 2 Epox 8rda+'s. With the Asus i had no problems at all.
Again, ( imho ) you cannot buy a motherboard because a few persons had no problems at all.
Or just buy one that has SATA, for future reviews .. ;)

Just one thing, dont buy PC4000 memory, since they cannot run low timings.
 
Bouncing Zabaglione Bros. said:
The reason why Soundstorm is doing so well is because it is way above the quality normally expected for intergrated sound solutions. The reason why I dodn't bother reinstalling my Creative card when I upgraded my A7N8X:

1. Extremely low CPU usage with Soundstorm.
2. Not dealing with problematic Creative drivers and all their foibles, and thus much increased stability.
Again, "quality" doesn't necessarily relate to analog output. My Asus A7N266-VM has SS, but the audio on the analog out sounds awful (hissing and popping on both my speakers and headphones, both decent) no doubt due to cheap analog circuitry. CPU usage and optical DD out and more stable drivers are separate issues (but important as well).

The Asus' IGP has substandard analog output for its IGP, as well (blurry at 10x7!). I can't expect miracles for $79, but both are poor enough for me to consider worthless features.
 
Pete said:
Again, "quality" doesn't necessarily relate to analog output. My Asus A7N266-VM has SS, but the audio on the analog out sounds awful (hissing and popping on both my speakers and headphones, both decent) no doubt due to cheap analog circuitry.

Even the Asus A7N8X Deluxe has its audio quality way below of a simple SB Live Value 4.0 card.
 
Hyp-X said:
Pete said:
Again, "quality" doesn't necessarily relate to analog output. My Asus A7N266-VM has SS, but the audio on the analog out sounds awful (hissing and popping on both my speakers and headphones, both decent) no doubt due to cheap analog circuitry.

Even the Asus A7N8X Deluxe has its audio quality way below of a simple SB Live Value 4.0 card.

I think you may be missing the point of Soundstorm, this article from Overclockers Australia explains it pretty well.

http://www.overclockers.com.au/article.php?id=134416



Comparing the 6ch digital output to 6ch analog output is no contest. When playing a stereo source such as mp3 based music, it is instantly noticeable that the digtal method produces much clearer and brighter centre and subwoofer channels and the surround sound fields sound much more powerful and brighter. The clarity of digital connection method is instantly apparent when switching to and from analog output.

So as I see it, the real stregnth for SoundStorm is the digital features, and the Analogue out is "average".

For a testbed, do we have a budget to work with? (Currency would be nice too :D ) And will it be used for other things in between testings?
 
There's always a budget when it comes out of my own pocket ;)

I should be getting what I want (3200+ and the Asus mobo... which I didn't know is exactly Neeyik's setup until his Asus GFFX 5900 comparison review) sometime in the coming week.

As for the sound quality discussion, it's not a major consideration for me (unless it is absolutely crappy) so I'll just experiment and test the SS vs the SBLive.

Thanks to all for the comments.
 
Sorry for bringing up this old topic.

Okay, I've had the new rig (3200+, Abit mobo) running for a few weeks now. There was some inexplicable problem initially -- the mobo was short-circuited twice (i.e. two mobos went dead) after a while. The shop that I usually buys stuff from (and which I bought this new rig from) finally traced the problem down to an incorrectly placed metal spacer on the case that touched the mobo at a place it shouldn't be touching! All is fine now (with a 3rd Abit mobo... you have no idea how good this shop is to me!).

Anyway, the real reason for bringing back up this thread is a question pertaining to the Kingston RAM I bought. It's a couple of 256MB HyperX PC3200 RAM. I never really paid much attention to the RAM (the shop guy, which I trust, told me this is good RAM) but just now I looked at the BIOS and it appears that the RAM timings are 8-3-3-2.5

My question is if anyone knows if this Kingston RAM can run at anything better than those timings?
 
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