UK views towards Piracy

Ty said:
Maybe this explains why when someone here talks about "earning" some money by selling warez on ebay, it boggles my mind.
I've never heard ANYONE say that, profiteering like that is eviler than hell even in my book. :?
 
digitalwanderer said:
Ty said:
Maybe this explains why when someone here talks about "earning" some money by selling warez on ebay, it boggles my mind.
I've never heard ANYONE say that, profiteering like that is eviler than hell even in my book. :?
/lmao
What do you care, you steal but dont think its theft. So why would selling what you obviously dont think is stealable not ok?

epic
 
digitalwanderer said:
I think there is a huge difference between stealing for personal use as opposed to stealing to profit off it, yeah.
Probably because you steal for personal use. ;)

But yes, I agree with you.
 
RussSchultz said:
digitalwanderer said:
I think there is a huge difference between stealing for personal use as opposed to stealing to profit off it, yeah.
Probably because you steal for personal use. ;)

But yes, I agree with you.
Almost no difference, either way dw profits from what he steals. THe amount he steals is the only difference.

If he doesnt buy it, but steals it for his own personal use. He doesnt spend money on the product, which causes a loss to those who worked to create it. And if he sells said stolen items than it again causes a loss to those who worked to create it.
 
epicstruggle said:
If he doesnt buy it, but steals it for his own personal use. He doesnt spend money on the product, which causes a loss to those who worked to create it.
Ah, but I'd have never bought it in the first place so they're NOT losing money to me. To not do it for myself is just denying me, which I try and avoid if at all possible.

I really do find the idea of pirating for profit just reprehensible, scum-o-the-earth type behavoir. I just do it for entertainment.
 
digitalwanderer said:
epicstruggle said:
If he doesnt buy it, but steals it for his own personal use. He doesnt spend money on the product, which causes a loss to those who worked to create it.
Ah, but I'd have never bought it in the first place so they're NOT losing money to me. To not do it for myself is just denying me, which I try and avoid if at all possible.

I really do find the idea of pirating for profit just reprehensible, scum-o-the-earth type behavoir. I just do it for entertainment.
THis is the problem with those who think like you. You cant see that you ARE STEALING. You are profiting by not spending money on that game/movie/music that you might have purchased had you not STOLEN it in the first place.

epic
 
epicstruggle said:
What do you care, you steal but dont think its theft. So why would selling what you obviously dont think is stealable not ok?

epic

Who is the brainless dummy here? I think digi buys more media than you do, so YOU are seen as the bigger pirate by Hollywood and the BSA, because you don't buy anything.

Btw, before you start about voting with your wallet: it isn't going to work, as they are sure everyone needs their stuff every day. You are allowed an individual taste, though. You don't have to like Britney Spears, as long as you like and buy something.

The only thing they see as impossible is that you might not be addicted or not like any of it.
 
To steal means that you end up saying "this is mine" or "this is my creation". Piracy is not stealing intellectual property, most of the time all the games/sw/movies are properly credited, and this is the only kind of property involved.

You can only argue that you're being provided a service you didn't pay or didn't have the right for, not that you are profiting from it. Selling warez on ebay, otoh, is profiting if you are providing more than the service of making the copies for you (as they always claim to), but it is not stealing, it's illegal distribution of IP, better known as copyright infringement. Two totally different concepts. Another thing is, that if you buy a warez copy of a DVD you had but broke, you are not doing anything wrong or illegal and neither is the guy to whom you bought it from, provided he knew and can prove that you claimed that you owned the right to have it and he had an original in the first place, making you the responsible person for IP theft. I know this is probaly legally prosecutable in most countries but not morally wrong, and I know this almost never happens in reality.

To claim pirating is stealing is a stupid argument made by the record/movie/other industry especially considering the great lengths they went through to explain that the "goods" aren't physical but intelectual, and then doing everything they can to lock the physical media as if it were a safehouse where the "goods" are kept. Nevermind the inherent flaw of the pricing scheme of a service whose value is abstract. Is it commonly accepted you return a CD/DVD/game with the argument that it's crap? I mean, they're following the same rules as if it was a car or a TV to set the prices (supply/demand, but due to price fixing, mostly demand) but you're not able to enjoy the same rights? They basically refer to the media to catter for this, like a scratched CD, broken case, or blocky video quality, i.e. the physical media not what really matters, even from their supposed arguments of IP.

To clearly understand the issue, pretend you are invited by a friend to watch a movie at his/her place and after the movie ended you notice it's a DVD-R. Did you commit a crime? Did you steal? Should another 20€/$ be added to the "piracy losses" reported? Another one: is it legal to download a movie/show that was on TV the other day but you missed it? After all, you already paid for the service....
 
epicstruggle said:
THis is the problem with those who think like you. You cant see that you ARE STEALING. You are profiting by not spending money on that game/movie/music that you might have purchased had you not STOLEN it in the first place.
But that's just it, I wouldn't have bought it so they ain't losing nothing...you keep missing that bit. :?
 
While it might make sense for the record company to make you pay a flat tax to be able to enjoy any of their media, I'm sure that their next step would be to have you pay for the individual things you want to use as well, to maximize their profit. And that's the whole problem.

So, there is no solution to this, as long as they want to get more money than the people are willing to pay for their products, and declare anyone who isn't paying it willingly criminals.
 
Erm... speaking in broad terms, Europeans and Americans have different outlooks on this. Period. Full stop. End of story. Is there a point in discussing this?

Is there a point in discussing this in the Fluffy Forum rather than RPSC where the usual Euro v USA Slam Down happens?
 
Ty said:
Two UK university researchers found that people did not see downloading copyrighted material as theft.
Well atleast here in Australia and in the US niether does the law. Its called piracy and there is no criminal pental there are civil ones though.
With Theft you actually loose an actual asset with piracy you loose a possible sale.

Clearly anyone who thinks the piracy and theft are the same are really don't know the difference between loosing money and loosing an oportunaty to make money.
 
nutball said:
Erm... speaking in broad terms, Europeans and Americans have different outlooks on this. Period. Full stop. End of story.
You may just have a point there, I think I do have a bit of a Europeon outlook for an American.

I spell color with a "u", I love to say "bloody" and "wanker", I'm a huge BBC freak, and I hate Bush....I think that qualifies me. ;)
 
digitalwanderer said:
I think there is a huge difference between stealing for personal use as opposed to stealing to profit off it, yeah.
In honour of this thread I had to dig out my copy of probably the best game I have ever paid money for, and that was one where I, technically, didn't have to. Good old 'pirate friendly' Freespace 2! Volition rocked.
The EULA said:
You may make copies of the Software for your personal noncommercial home entertainment use and to give to friends and acquaintances on a no cost noncommercial basis. This limited right to copy the Software expressly excludes any copying or distribution of the Software on a commercial basis [...]
 
people who download gigabytes of crap couldn't afford it, or wouldn't buy it anyway.
Without P2P I wouldn't have seen star wars episode 3 until it's out for free on TV.. and I feel like I should have been paid for downloading it :oops:
 
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