Ubisoft working on their own rootkit

Discussion in 'PC Gaming' started by MfA, Jul 28, 2009.

  1. Neb

    Neb Iron "BEAST" Man
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    Seems a bit harsh calling it rootkit right now. Isn't rootkit a 'driver' installed without the users knowledge?

    however the real solution is to cut the piracy at the root level.To bad goverments and suits are asses that cant even close down torrent sites.
     
  2. Demirug

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    Locks like they still haven’t learned their lesson. It’s impossible to protect code on an open platform like the PC. A new system may buy them a few days for the first titles that use it but then it’s all over again.
     
  3. MfA

    MfA
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    DRM installs are usually only mentioned in fineprint at best ... it's a kit which installs at root, it's a rootkit.

    IMO the software companies should have gotten together with Microsoft a long time ago and settled on a standardized USB dongle (with Microsoft maintaining security at ring 0, just like they are doing for say video DRM). In volume these things don't even have to cost a buck (well, maybe 2 to pay for patent licenses). They could just include one with every game but allow key-transfer so all the keys for games could be put on a single dongle.

    With dongles there is much more opportunity to make life hard for hackers (you can decrypt some code in real-time, you can run some code on the dongle ... that sort of stuff).

    I'm willing to trust Microsoft with root, but I don't see why I should have to trust games there.
     
    #4 MfA, Jul 28, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 28, 2009
  4. Davros

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    These developers make me so angry
    they spend fortunes on drm for their games and you know even before the game is released that it wont work, yet they continue to buy them
    what really makes me mad is the fact that I have developed my own copy protection scheme. Not only is it just as infective at stopping piracy but I even guarantee it (full refund if you game remains un pirated a year after release)
    plus its half the price of other drm schemes
    yet publishers ignore it.
     
  5. Bouncing Zabaglione Bros.

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    Surely this article is related to handheld consoles? I don't see the PC mentioned except in passing, it's mostly talk about the DS and PSP.
     
  6. jakobx

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    The problem with dongles is that it doesn't stop the second hand market. You can still sell the game you bought and this is not what the companies want. DRM such as steam or securerom is much more successful at stopping this. The downside is that some of us boycott all games that use online authentication. I only have bioshock and hl2&ep1 in this format and its going to stay this way.

    IMO they are just going to make their own custom version of securerom and thats it. Have they published any good pc games lately? Its kinda painful that i cant buy (and own) mass effect or fear 2 for example. I was hoping the industry would realize that it hurts their sales more than it helps stop piracy/second hand market.
     
  7. jakobx

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    Thats what i thought but after rereading the article it clearly mentions the PC.

     
  8. Demirug

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    As the system engineer in our team DRM, Anti-Cheat etc. are all parts of my work area. The reason why you don’t get a food in the door is you promise too much. If some company told me that they have an unbreakable solution to this problem I simply would not believe them. Therefore a full refund option would make me only thing that such a company would not be there in 12 months anymore.

    Promise less. No zero day exploits. No generic cracks.
     
  9. L233

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    I think you didn't get the joke.

     
  10. Demirug

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    :D You are right. Seems like I have talked to much with these DRM guys.
     
  11. DudeMiester

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    Frankly, if all powerful DRM means I get more high quality non-online PC games instead of just console left-overs, MMOGs, low budget, and advertising supported games, then I'm all for it.

    I don't mind DRM if it's coded well. That's why I don't like these kernal based DRMs, because they can screw up your system. Microsoft should include the kernal support themselves, and I have no doubt that they are working on it. I also believe there needs to be strong regulation dictating what such DRM can and cannot do, which is lacking at the moment.
     
    #12 DudeMiester, Jul 28, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 28, 2009
  12. Silent_Buddha

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    I think the pubs at this point are far less concerned with used sales than they are with piracy. When the number of pirated copies of your games far outstrips the amount of sales of that same game, it's a serious problem.

    And before you chime in with most people only pirate because it has DRM. Prince of Persia (2008) had no DRM and was pirated up the wazoo. It was one of a few games that UBIsoft experimented with to see what the effects of no DRM would be with regards to piracy.

    Regards,
    SB
     
  13. Bouncing Zabaglione Bros.

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    It'll take more than one game to change the confrontational landscape the pubs now find themselves in. They continue to churn out buggy games with no intention of fixing them, or poor console ports that leave customers feeling justified in pirating games.

    You just have to look at the forums for the likes of Prototype or Dark Sector to see people promising they'll pirate future releases from those companies in order to screw them over in the same way the customers have been screwed with those buggy releases. At the very least those customers won't be buying from those publishers again.

    I just don't believe that continuing to ratchet up the arms race will get anywhere in the long term. History shows they can't beat the army of hackers working against them. Even Ubisoft say in the OP's article link that added value and good products are what increases sales.
     
  14. Demirug

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    Whatever Microsoft is doing at the moment it would be too late. PC offline games are already a dead horse that most publishers still try to ride.

    Yes, on the PC piracy is the biggest problem.

    But on the consoles the second hand market becomes more and more an issue.
     
  15. DudeMiester

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    Another alternative is to simply find new customers that are less motivated and have different standards; aka casual gamers. I think this is what will actually happen.

    Fortunately, I also expect hardcore gamers are also motivated enough to make their own games when the time comes. (and I think it will be sooner rather than later)

    Lastly, "added value" on PC games generally means locked in online required components. MMOGs in other words. Not everyone wants to play those. I really don't think these other gimmicks like tshirts and collectors editions are ever going to be reasonably profitable. So you have a situation where even in a single player game, the developer has to shoehorn in online required components somehow. I think of CitiesXL and Spore as I say this.
     
  16. MfA

    MfA
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    So why haven't they gone with dongles then? A company which ships 100s of thousands of units a year could build a USB dongle for a couple of bucks.
     
  17. Demirug

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    It's a growing market for sure. The other one are game with a very strong online component. In the case of Sims and Spore it’s still too weak.

    I know many of this motivated people. Most of them underestimate how much work it is to make a game. The second group overestimates their motivation. There are actually some people that finish their work but the results are far away from the commercial quality or it takes them ages to get the work done.
     
  18. joker454

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    Do you guys think dongles would work and/or be accepted by the PC gaming crowd? I'm curious. We know that no drm doesn't work, and drm doesn't work, so I wonder if usb dongles could be an acceptable solution. At least that way instead of requiring that the user put the game cd in the drive, that could be skipped and instead just require a usb dongle be inserted before playing.
     
  19. nutball

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    An issue in what sense? An issue maybe in the increasing gulf between the expectations of the dev/pub and that of the customer?
     
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