TSMC wafer pricing

Discussion in 'Graphics and Semiconductor Industry' started by Silenti, Sep 18, 2020.

  1. Silenti

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    Published wafer costs. Retired Engineer twitter.

     
  2. BRiT

    BRiT (>• •)>⌐■-■ (⌐■-■)
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    I'm hoping one of the responders comes through with his own numbers that are even more accurate.

    Also, the source report the original tweeter used: https://t.co/eusoK93ob8?amp=1

     
  3. manux

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    TSMC wafer prices revealed. If this is true then our wallets are going to cry when upgrading in future. Chips are getting way more expensive if they keep being same size.

    upload_2020-9-18_7-4-36.png
    https://www.tomshardware.com/news/t...aled-300mm-wafer-at-5nm-is-nearly-dollar17000

    Using smaller chips with less transistors isn't going to give giant boost either. Scaling isn't what it used to be. As usual the Or in less power or more performance is critical to notice.

    upload_2020-9-18_7-5-57.png

    https://www.anandtech.com/show/1602...technology-details-full-node-scaling-for-2h22
     
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  4. Nebuchadnezzar

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  5. manux

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  6. Nebuchadnezzar

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    I don't have permission / we'll have to clear it first.
     
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  7. Entropy

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    That table also has a huge post that is "other costs and mark up". Hmm. Plus depreciation assumptions, plus...
    It gets even worse once assumptions regarding development costs and volume gets mixed into the final single figure of merit.
    Total cost/wafer does go up with lithographic advances obviously, making volume an ever more important factor in the total assesment, but trying to boil it all down to some immutable single figure for a node seems ... difficult.
     
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  8. DSoup

    DSoup meh
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    Unless TSMC have changed their business model, these prices do not include the cost of the wafers - that would be a separate cost. These are TSMC's foundry costs. The wafer choice that customers specify (and pay for) must meet TSMC's requirements but if you want to use cheap wafers at the risk of lower yields, that's up to the customer. I would image for consoles, the choice of wafer is likely something determined between AMD and TSMC based on trial runs. This is the expertise that Microsoft and Sony are paying for.

    Equally, TSMC may have got into the wafer business but I do not believe this to be the case. The UK exports a metric ton of wafers to TSMC for various applications.
     
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  9. Entropy

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    Iterating on a previous comment, if you get permission to state (processed but not including mask cost) wafer costs, it would be great. Figures circulating on the web is typically ”analyst estimates” which vary both in quality and in underlying assumptions. Once you plow through enough of those, it may yield a decent feel for where costs lie. Or not, if the numbers all rely on some dubious or simply old data point.

    Having a snapshot of actual factual costs would be nice.

    (I assume that the reason nobody puts these numbers out there is that they are subject to negotiation. (And depend on volumes, spread over time, date of agreement et cetera.))
     
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