Tried my Driving Force Pro on GTHD.

[Crayon]

I've been vocal about my distaste for rumbling controllers. Luckily, I'm one of the few who aren't bummed about it's exclusion from PS3. However, Sony's tangle with Immersion has also crippled ff steering wheel support.

I got around to trying my Logitech Driving Force Pro with GTHD last nite. How is it withough FF? Worse than you may imagine!!

If you've never used a DFP or other high-quality wheel, then you may not know how important the FF functions are. The wheel's motors can communicate tire orientation and slip angle realisticly. This allows you to not only be more immersed in your simulation, but to post better times as well, since you have more information to work with.

On PS3, the DFP is limp.

So you lose all that nice tactile information that makes the expense and fuss of the setup worthwile. That's bad enough, but it gets worse...

Something that you may not notice on a day to day basis, but is integral to the act of steering a car, is the effect of trail and caster on your steering input. I won't get into the nitty-gritty, but this is what lets you ease your grip on the wheel and have it slip back around to it's center position when you are exiting a turn.

Since the DFP relies on information from the software to accuratly simulate this, it doesn't have a simple spring to return itself to center the way a non-FF wheel normally would. And without any FF function, you have to manually unwind wheel lock when steering back towards center. This is extremly cumbersome and unrealistic! It kills your time thru tight corners. And since the wheel rotates a full 900 degrees, it becomes something of a chore to keep track of it's actual orientation.

In the end, my 150 dollar DFP is actually WORSE than a cheapie 50 dollar non-ff wheel when used on PS3.

Thanks Sony and Immersion ! Your legal wranglings have broken this driver's heart !

I have yet to test it with F1, RR7 or PS2's GT4.

 

[TheChefO]

I've been vocal about my distaste for rumbling controllers. Luckily, I'm one of the few who aren't bummed about it's exclusion from PS3. However, Sony's tangle with Immersion has also crippled ff steering wheel support.

I got around to trying my Logitech Driving Force Pro with GTHD last nite. How is it withough FF? Worse than you may imagine!!

If you've never used a DFP or other high-quality wheel, then you may not know how important the FF functions are. The wheel's motors can communicate tire orientation and slip angle realisticly. This allows you to not only be more immersed in your simulation, but to post better times as well, since you have more information to work with.

On PS3, the DFP is limp.

So you lose all that nice tactile information that makes the expense and fuss of the setup worthwile. That's bad enough, but it gets worse...

Something that you may not notice on a day to day basis, but is integral to the act of steering a car, is the effect of trail and caster on your steering input. I won't get into the nitty-gritty, but this is what lets you ease your grip on the wheel and have it slip back around to it's center position when you are exiting a turn.

Since the DFP relies on information from the software to accuratly simulate this, it doesn't have a simple spring to return itself to center the way a non-FF wheel normally would. And without any FF function, you have to manually unwind wheel lock when steering back towards center. This is extremly cumbersome and unrealistic! It kills your time thru tight corners. And since the wheel rotates a full 900 degrees, it becomes something of a chore to keep track of it's actual orientation.

In the end, my 150 dollar DFP is actually WORSE than a cheapie 50 dollar non-ff wheel when used on PS3.

Thanks Sony and Immersion ! Your legal wranglings have broken this driver's heart !

I have yet to test it with F1, RR7 or PS2's GT4.

Hmm ... I hear Forza2 should be out soon, plus theres a pretty good FF wheel available ...

 

[Crayon]

Here's hoping for a patch now that the Immersion thing has worked out.

360+Forza2+Wheel would would make a mokery of my feeble attempts to set a budget for my gaming!

 

[crazygambit]

I read somewhere that FF wouldn't work in the free demo because they would've had to pay to license it, which they didn't being a free demo and all. But I'm pretty sure the real GT5 will most definetely support FF. Though I'd like to know if F1, Motorstorm and RR7 support it as well, so get on with the testing

 

[arkaerial]

Crayon I know what you mean about the DFP on the PS3. I was seriously disappointed with no FF on GT-HD and I had to go back to the controller. It felt like a limp noodle being slung around.
What bugs me about Forza 2 is there is no support (as of yet) for the G25 racing wheel. Since I was thinking of getting one for GTR2, GT Legends it would be nice if the Forza team would make use of the H pattern shifter and clutch...sadly nothing. GT4 uses it but like the DFP (sequential shift mode & clutchless), which is why I'm holding off for now.

 

[Arwin]

I read somewhere that FF wouldn't work in the free demo because they would've had to pay to license it, which they didn't being a free demo and all. But I'm pretty sure the real GT5 will most definetely support FF. Though I'd like to know if F1, Motorstorm and RR7 support it as well, so get on with the testing

This is exactly the reason why there wasn't any FF in the GT:HD demo / why it was pulled out of the GT:HD demo - remember, the first version of the demo released in Japan still had the FF in.

Now that Immersion and Sony have settled their differences, expect FF to be standard again in both games and demos.

Right now though, what I know is that full F1 game only supports re-centering, but that's at least something and generally controlling the game with Logitech wheels has been reviewed favorably despite not having feedback on ground vibration.

The other games, like NFS and Ridge Racer, apparently do have regular Force Feedback, but I'm not sure. Be sure to let us know. Just make sure you don't take demos as the final word right now.

I personally hope Sony will release another GT:HD demo for Europe with the FF back in. It's the most important market for driving games and wheel support.

I also agree with the previous poster. If Microsoft will only support its own wheel for Forza 2, that will be a great letdown, and a big barrier for me to buy a 360 + Forza 2 (should the game otherwise warrant it in the first place). I'd much rather buy a G25 and be able to use it with my PS3, PC (which I can already do with my Logitech DF Pro) and 360, than have to buy a separate wheel for the 360.

 

[[maven]]

This is exactly the reason why there wasn't any FF in the GT:HD demo / why it was pulled out of the GT:HD demo - remember, the first version of the demo released in Japan still had the FF in.

I don't think this was the reason as Logitech already has a license from Immersion for their wheels (which should be enough AFAICS). The lawsuit (IIRC) was for the use of Immersion technology in Sony's own controllers.

That said, I also miss rumble in MotorStorm and FF in GT:HD terribly...

 

[Arwin]

I don't think this was the reason as Logitech already has a license from Immersion for their wheels (which should be enough AFAICS). The lawsuit (IIRC) was for the use of Immersion technology in Sony's own controllers.

Logitech has the licence from Immersion, but that doesn't mean Immersion still has to get paid for each piece of software distributed with Immersion tech.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Or putting it another way, the licensing is needed on both the hardware and the software. A license is needed to create FF steering wheels, and the software needs a license to send those wheels instructions to move. The hardware is licensed, but the software isn't.

As I understand it.

 

[[maven]]

I personally hope Sony will release another GT:HD demo for Europe with the FF back in. It's the most important market for driving games and wheel support.

It didn't happen, i.e. the European (or at least German) GT:HD version still doesn't support force feedback on my US PS3 model...

To end on a somewhat funny note, the German PS3 Store still has the Japanese confirmation buttons in some places... ^_^

 

[V-G]

Hmm ... I hear Forza2 should be out soon, plus theres a pretty good FF wheel available ...

I find it sad when people see it as their duty to do PR for a brand.

I could understand it if it was for a political standpoint.

 

[TheChefO]

I find it sad when people see it as their duty to do PR for a brand.

I could understand it if it was for a political standpoint.

I like to increase awareness. Some may not have known or remembered other options do exist for specific gaming desires that are said to perform quite well.

 

[Fafalada]

remember, the first version of the demo released in Japan still had the FF in.

All versions of the Jpn demo have FF - it has just been disabled for American hardware.

As for other games, you're right, F1 uses default centering spring (this is a fallback for games where there was no time to implement feedback), MotorStorm doesn't use the wheel, and R7 has real FF.
I'm referring to Japanese releases here though, so for all I know F1/MS in Europe/US might change things.

I don't think this was the reason

First GTHD demo had FF that worked on all region hardware. It was then promptly updated to 1.1 which disables FF on US machines.
The impression is that 1st party software was subject to different legal restrictions as 3rd party (NFS/R7 apparently shipped with FF support everywhere).

It didn't happen, i.e. the European (or at least German) GT:HD version still doesn't support force feedback on my US PS3 model..

Is Euro site up for everyone? I'll try it on the Japanese model if so.

 

[[maven]]

Is Euro site up for everyone? I'll try it on the Japanese model if so.

I should think so, although I only have confirmations for the UK and German PSN store.

 

[V3]

It works on Japanese GT:HD demo on Japanese PS3. Works with RR7 too. And from what I heard NFS Carbon. F1 Doesn't work, but Japanese got the rush version of F1.

How is the European GT:HD demo on European PS3 ? Does it work ? and RR7 and NFS Carbon. If not it sure is sucks for European racing fans.

BTW is there any sims racing game in the horizon for PS3 other than GT5rologue that is 60fps ?

What about you Faf ? Are you working on Faf racer 2 ?

 

[Bad_Boy]

Crayon, have you listened to the PSInext podcast with evolution studios?
Announcements may come regarding logitech/immersion/force feedback.

 

[Fafalada]

Euro version of GTHD demo doesn't start on Jp PS3 :| Maybe it's a fluke (I'll try redownloading when I have a chance), maybe some other reason.

What about you Faf ? Are you working on Faf racer 2 ?

In a manner of speaking, yes.

 

[Mmmkay]

GTHD Concept Version 2.0 is now up on the European PSN, with added FFB support for the DFP.

(Pics courtesy of TTP)

 

[inefficient]

GTHD Concept Version 2.0 is now up on the European PSN, with added FFB support for the DFP.

That is cool. I wonder if this means we will soon get rumble support in old PS2 games back as well. Or does the EU PS3 already have that?

 

[Bad_Boy]

GTHD Concept Version 2.0 is now up on the European PSN, with added FFB support for the DFP.

(Pics courtesy of TTP)
http://photos.digitalrave.net/images/6159gthd1.jpg[img]

[img]http://photos.digitalrave.net/images/2694gthd2.jpg[img][/QUOTE]
Awesome news. :D Gonna order the g25 very soon now. :)